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Controlling anger in young children... - 11/17/2008 2:35:25 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
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My son is five years old. I made a little change in schedule today that he did not like. He got mad and yelled. I gave him a warning on his attitude, and with that, he kicked me in the face. He busted my lip. It hurts very badly and bled for a while. I have gauze in my mouth right now because it hurts so much when my lip rubs my teeth. He gets angry a lot and then lashes out at someone...today, it just happened to be me and is probably the worst hurt he's inflicted on anyone. Do any of you have any ideas on helping him control his anger at this age? I don't even know what to do as a punishment anymore because it seems like we've been battling it for so long, and I've tried so many different things, and it seems that he comes away from discipline as angry as he was before. Once in a while I can get to him and he realizes that he's really hurt someone, and he seems truly repentant and sorry, but those occasions are becoming more and more rare. My TWO YEAR OLD told him today that he needed to apologize to mommy...he didn't even apologize for hurting me until a TWO YEAR OLD reminded him. Any ideas or suggestions are welcome....
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/17/2008 3:39:01 PM
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cynthia
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This is a very difficult and complex issue. If you can afford counseling, I think your son could benefit and so could you and your husband. You have got to get to the bottom of this and resolve it or it is only going to get worse. It is important to choose a biblical counselor and preferably one who has worked with children with these types of issues.
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/17/2008 5:17:01 PM
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pbaribeault
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Perhaps it would help (if you haven't already) if you explore anger at a calm time...
What is "angry"? How does it feel? Where do you feel it? Can you draw a picture of "angry"? What things make you feel angry? What kinds of things do you want to do when you feel angry? Do you know what "calm" feels like? How does it feel to go from calm to angry? Does it happen fast or slow? How does it feel to go from angry to calm? What does it feel like when you know you're going to be angry very soon?
Then you want to identify, name and explore the pre-anger feelings. You can make up new names for feelings that don't have a good English word, so long as the 2 of you know what you are talking about. (My dd and I use "goggled" for that feeling of not quite awake and not wanting to deal with anything.) Take time to reflect on all the feelings he is really having in those anger situations, the reasons why he became angry. If he can catch that feeling and state it in the situation, and then you help him deal with it, he might not get all the way to anger. (Anger is always a secondary emotion.)
Do you know what "disappointed" is?
What is that feeling when you think something is unfair?
Does feeling confused sometimes help get you angry?
Do you know what "frustrated" means?
You can also teach some techniques, for if he notices he is about to become angry and he doesn't want to get all the way angry, he has something to do about it that he can try.
Things like:
Running or jumping on the spot
Going to a place where it's OK to scream out his feelings
Drawing an angry picture (scribbling hard)
Deep breaths (like blowing bubbles)
Counting
Saying phrases (either out-loud or to himself)
Having a 'calm spot' that he goes to
----
Once he understands anger and how it happens, and has a few tricks to try to keep it under control, then you start using consequences to make him want to control his anger.
I suggest you have him "redeem" each act of anger, after he has calmed down and it seems like he is ready for you to get over it and have the day go on as normal. The day does not go on as normal. If he wants it to, he's going to have to redeem his angry choices.
First, he apologizes in specific for each anger action. Then he "pays it off".
- If he was loud, he redeems it with quiet (silence) for twice as long.
- If he broke something, he redeems it with chores or money (if you are doing money with him).
- If he interfered with an activity, he hands over a privilege/activity that he cares about (we have 'tickets' for things like TV, puzzles, reading together etc. to make the 'handing over' more concrete).
- If he hurt someone, he spends a fair chunk of time in his room alone (an hour or more).
- If he was rude or called names, he has to read or write something about manners, and then tell the person the opposite of whatever the problem phrase was, and give them some extra kisses and hugs etc.
(The redemption action is always the opposite of the problem action, so they can take some thinking to figure out the first time, but then you just keep using them.)
He does this willingly, in order to get life back to normal. He doesn't have to, but if he chooses not to, the whole world grinds to a halt. No outings, no toys, no bedtime stories, no fun: total refusal to do anything that would make his life happy. Then, "Do you want me to tell you how to redeem your anger? If you want, I'll tell you how to do it, so we can be cheerful with one another again."
After this, you can be really clear about being ready to be cheerful with him again, if he is ready to be cheerful with you. Then, really do be cheerful, warm and open towards him.
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/17/2008 7:04:14 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6148
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting
My son is five years old. I made a little change in schedule today that he did not like.
What was this change and how did you communicate it to him? (ie what words, what manner etc)
quote:
He got mad and yelled. I gave him a warning on his attitude, and with that, he kicked me in the face.
What did he yell?
Could I also ask you what you said when you warned him, and in what position you were? I am having trouble trying to work out how a 5 yr old's foot could end up on a level with your mouth.
It would just help to have some more background info before I give my answer.
_____________________________
"I think Manda and I are on the same page"
crankius, January 2009
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/18/2008 12:52:53 PM
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BrownCan
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Just keep a watch on couple of things:
- What he is watching on TV/Games
- What does he likes/hates
- If friends then inquire about their parents relationships
- Get him medically checked, I'm not sure but one of my relatives had a young boy and he had some health issues on getting upset, angry and cranky.
- If does that again, try to boycott on many things he likes
Cheers
_____________________________
as seen on tv infomercial products
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/18/2008 1:02:17 PM
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crankius
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I'm also wondering about your husband. How does he handle this anger in your son? What is his relationship like with him?
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/18/2008 3:07:00 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
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The change was about nap time. I had not made him take a nap for the past few weeks because dd had a cast on her arm. I couldn't get her to rest well with the cast on, so we all just sat together and watched TV. This made her extra cranky though, so as soon as she got the cast off, we were going back to nap time. I told him that when we stopped the naps, and then yesterday when we were going to start napping again, after lunch, I said, "It's almost time for nap." He said, "No, I don't want to take a nap." I said, "I know you don't. As long as you just lay quietly until your sister goes to sleep, you can get up." He didn't like that either and started yelling, just a yell..."AAAAAAHHHHHHHH." I said, "Do not scream. That is not acceptable in the house. This is your warning. Next time, you will be in your room." At that point, as we were sitting on the couch together, he lifted himself up to STANDING on the couch and then kicked me in the mouth.
My husband and I are on the same page. After this incident, he stayed in his bed all day, which my husband would have done had the situation been reversed. We both prayed with him later and have talked to him about anger. We have talked to him about stopping when he's angry and talking to us. He and his dad have a good relationship.
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/19/2008 3:04:53 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I never had this problem with my own children, but I had it with my first grandson. It shocked me! I was totally unprepared for it. But he started when he was much younger than your son and got over it before he was your son's age, so I am not sure how my methods would work for you. Thought I would pass it on, anyway.
When it happened, I was his main caregiver during the day, while his mother was at school and work. I had no clue what to do.
I don't believe in spanking, so I got on the Internet and got some answers. The main things that worked for us were these:
- When he "had a cow" while shopping, I immediately took him home, no matter what, no matter how it inconvenienced me. After all, the lesson was needed, and his needs were more important than mine, because this was his life we were dealing with. I could always retrace my steps another time
- When he "had a cow" at my house, I dropped everything and hugged him. Not the common, tender, "I love you" hug but one that was firm enough that he could not wiggle out of it but it did not hurt him or make him think I was angry. When he settled down enough, I would start singing his special songs to him, which he loved. When he fully relaxed, I sat down with him and continued singing, then we began a completely different activity from the one that had set him off. When things were settled enough, we got back to the original activity
- When he struck or bit me, everything came to a halt. If it was a bite, I hugged him as above in such a way that he could not bite, kick, or hit me, usually holding his back to my chest, but I never hurt him. I was just silent until he settled down enough, then I explained that what he had done had hurt me, showing him the sopt where he had hurt me. I used whatever explanation was appropriate for his age. What really stopped this action, though, was long after the incident, while we were enjoying each other's company, and I would show him what he had done -- just once. He would feel so bad about what he had done that he just stopped. He didn't want to be like that, and he expressed it verbally to me one day, saying that he didn't want to be a "bad boy." I hugged him and told him he wasn't bad, but that we would work on that together.
When he was old enough for timeouts, I put him in the most boring place I had, where his timeout was used as time to think -- I had him count up to 50, out loud, and he could not get up until he had done it. Of course, I helped him learn, initially. Before I thought he could do it, I had him count by 2s to 50; he surprised me by doing it with hardly a thought! So next time, it was by 5s, which I had him repeat at other times until I was sure he could count around a clock. Then I dropped back to 3s, counting up to 48. We did this through the years, using all the lower numbers, and when he started first grade, he knew all the number increments. Hee-hee! When they started multiplication, he was light-years ahead of the class. It was hilarious!
He is now 19, just paid cash for his first car (which my daughter keeps telling me is nicer than any of theirs). He's an extreme-musician (especially on the clarinet and sax, but he plays others), and he's starting college in January. They do grow up! And he hasn't bitten me in -- uh -- 16 years! 
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/22/2008 3:32:15 PM
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LovingtheSavior
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Our son had tantrums like you described. That was not an easy time and I will be praying for you.
That being said this is how we handled it. First we realized that the more calm we remained the sooner he would calm down. Then we had him tested for food intolerance's, in our case he was allergic to dyes and preservatives, the self control greatly improved after we took him off these things. Alcat.com has a great web site that can give you more information if you would like.
When he was calm we started having conversations that would help us plan how we would all react when he got angry. He could articulate that when he was mad he felt picked on. To him, every consequence seem like a personal attack. So when he started to melt down we would ask him if he would like to go to his room and calm down, or go to talk with my dad who lives next door - these two things removed him from the situation. This did not mean he didn't get the consequences for his poor choices, but while he was angry we worked on calming him down. Twenty minutes later we would talk to him about his poor decisions and what his consequences would be. Physical labor was a huge deterrent for him, stacking twenty pieces of wood, sweeping the back porch, etc.. I have no idea if this might work in you home, but he is now seven and has a much better idea of how to control his anger.
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/22/2008 4:09:42 PM
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zippty_day
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My youngest son had problems expressing his anger. When he was a baby, he would bite other children in the nursery until he wasn't allowed to return. I had to bite him back and then he finally stopped. Then, in preschool, he hit the other children. Frustrated, I called Focus on the Family for advise, we were pastors. They recommended explaining that when we get mad, we don't hit people. It's ok to get mad/angry and it must be released but in a correct way. We then gave him a designated pillow to hit when he was mad. He took it to preschool and used it appropriately. Then, the problem seemed to fade away.
I agree about the diet too. Sugar will make children act inappropriately as it aggravates. Also lack of rest.
The problem seems to me that you changed the nap rule because of sister. In reality, that was a mistake on your part. Nobody is perfect. I've apologized many times to my children when I realized I made a mistake and then explained that this is how it's going to be. It was a mistake because now you have to reset this boundry. Children love boundaries. They will push until they find it. As a loving parent, set up your boundaries and tell him what the penalty is for breaking those boundaries. Tell him ahead of time or once it's happening. If you raise your voice to mommy, (make the discipline fit the crime) you will get your mouth washed out with soap. The pentalty has to be something you, as a parent, can live with. All day in bed doesn't seem to fit the crime for kicking mommy in the mouth, but one good swat on the behind does. Once those boundries have been established it's your responsibility to enforce what you've established.
I had the hardest time learning how to discipline my son. At first, I didn't want to do it and then I realized that I had to or I'd have a terrible son. He's a wonderful young man now. A spanking didn't work for him. It had to be grounded from something he liked. If he wanted to throw a fit, in his room, on his bed he was allowed to cry in his pillow. I didn't want to hear it. He was allowed to get mad, but in an appropriate way. Sometimes he'd stomp one foot. That's ok. He didn't hurt anyone or break anything and he got the mad part out. :)
< Message edited by funny_girl -- 11/22/2008 4:21:33 PM >
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/22/2008 5:48:43 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6148
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: funny_girl
If you raise your voice to mommy, (make the discipline fit the crime) you will get your mouth washed out with soap.
VisitorinWaiting,
I don't recommend that at all. You could end up exasperating and alienating your son even more, and end up with even more problems than you have now. I personally believe that the above is abusive.
_____________________________
"I think Manda and I are on the same page"
crankius, January 2009
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/22/2008 9:34:49 PM
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zippty_day
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: funny_girl
If you raise your voice to mommy, (make the discipline fit the crime) you will get your mouth washed out with soap.
VisitorinWaiting,
I don't recommend that at all. You could end up exasperating and alienating your son even more, and end up with even more problems than you have now. I personally believe that the above is abusive.
I guess, manda59, that is a matter of your opinion. However, I didn't have mouthy children and the few times that they had their mouth washed out they remembered and didn't want that again. I too, a very high strung child, remember getting my mouth washed out with soap. It would be very important to make sure that the child isn't allergic to it, that would be awful. Try toothpaste if you don't want to use soap. Discipline is not alienating, it's right. Scripture says, "Spare the rod, spoil the child."
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/22/2008 9:47:57 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6148
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: funny_girl
I guess, manda59, that is a matter of your opinion. However, I didn't have mouthy children and the few times that they had their mouth washed out they remembered and didn't want that again. I too, a very high strung child, remember getting my mouth washed out with soap. It would be very important to make sure that the child isn't allergic to it, that would be awful. Try toothpaste if you don't want to use soap. Discipline is not alienating, it's right. Scripture says, "Spare the rod, spoil the child."
My children were disciplined, thanks, without me having to force anything into their mouths.
Let's just agree to disagree here - if you want to discuss it further, we'd do better to start a new topic.
_____________________________
"I think Manda and I are on the same page"
crankius, January 2009
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/23/2008 3:48:57 PM
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locomom
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Please keep in mind that children who are sensitive to dyes, etc. can also have other sensitivities. With some children you will do harm by washing out their mouths' with soap because of the chemicals in the soap. You can burn the skin to some degree.
I have made made daughter apologize for behavior that wrongs someone as well as apologized to her when I was wrong. We also try to make up for any "damage" done whether it is repayment for property damage, repayment of time, or just a hug and a change of heart. Long term it has truly born fruit.
May I ask why your son has to lie down until his sister goes to sleep? Does you son have the option ofreading or playing quietly on his bed or in his room?
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/23/2008 5:32:53 PM
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29redballoons
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From: Georgia
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While I respect everyone's rights to their opinions...I really think the issue is the acting out in anger...not why he has to lie down.
If mine were 10 and I told them to lie down, I would expect them to lie down. I think the counseling idea is a great one. I also
would like to remind you to be consistent. Tell your children the rules and consequences at a non-cofrontational time. Remind them
when rule infractions occur, then follow thru...each time.
Locomom, this post is not directed to you. I just offend feel like my posts sometimes make the person beginning the thread
seem guilty because they asked the question, not that you don't offer great suggestions. Just to offer support that Visitorinwaiting
has a right to expect her son to follow directions when told to do something.
I also have washed my dd's mouth out with baking soda toothpaste (which in my opinion, tastes like soap) for mouthiness and ugly
talk. We "washed" away any bad language or tones. Didn't take long for her to remember to watch her tone and words.
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/24/2008 1:53:43 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I, personally, think that most of our children's bad attitudes and actions are learned directly from us as parents. We often don't realize when we act out, and we have no right to act out in ways we will not allow them to act out.
If we expect them to have good behavior, we have to consistently demonstrate good behavior. And as locomom wrote, we have to respect our children enough to admit when we are wrong, to apologize, and not pretend that we are perfect -- which no one, parent or not, is.
I wonder, too: what are the common hand soaps made of these days? When I was a child, one of the main ingredients was lye, another was old animal fats. So I looked it up . . . .
Handmade soaps, we are told, can be "dangerous" to make.
Soaps, in general, can have "essential oils" added -- something we are told on the bottle not to ingest. They have tea tree oils and eucalypus oils.
I found few soaps that list the ingredients, because it is not made for ingestion. One soap says that ingestion "may result in mild gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting or diarrhea." Another lists that it contains fragrance, PEG-12, sorbitol, glycerin, propylene glycol, "2,6-Di-t-butyl-p-cresol (BHT)," pentasodium pentetate, tetrasodium etidrontate, sodium cholride, water, cocoa butter, talc (non-fibrous), palm kerne; acid, iron oxides, palm kernel acids, and some ingredients that are definitely not toxic. Now, I am not chemist, but this stuff scares me, with regard to putting it in a child's mouth.
If anyone thinks if is necessary to wash a child's mouth out, why not use a bad-tasting tooth paste as mentioned, making sure the child does not swallow it (IT CAN BE TOXIC when swallowed!) or sprinkle pepper on their tongues? And when we come out with smart-talk, sass, etc., if would be a good idea to do it to ourselves as well.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/25/2008 2:53:09 PM
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MrsTracy72
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We have a puzzle and the pieces are all the fruits of the spirit. When my kids act out, we bring out the puzzle and make the identify which fruits they are not showing by placing them on the puzzle where they belong. Many times the entire puzzle is filled and while they are doing it, they have to tell us what they could do to change that.
If they have a fight with eachother, we pull out the puzzle, do the same thing, then make them say a few nice things to eachother. It really does help to calm them and change their perspective a bit.
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/25/2008 2:59:30 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Fabulous!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/25/2008 11:59:02 PM
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zippty_day
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MrsTracy, that is so beautiful!
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/28/2008 4:39:50 PM
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woodwind228
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Joined: 5/8/2008
From: Atlanta
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MrsTracy, I love that idea! My dd is having anger issues as well so this thread is of great interest to me too. There are a lot of great suggestions here. I like the idea of pepper on the tongue - that should get their attention. I've used lemon juice before when my dd was spitting, which worked very well with her.
With regard to the following:
quote:
I wonder, too: what are the common hand soaps made of these days? When I was a child, one of the main ingredients was lye, another was old animal fats. So I looked it up . . . .
Handmade soaps, we are told, can be "dangerous" to make.
Soaps, in general, can have "essential oils" added -- something we are told on the bottle not to ingest. They have tea tree oils and eucalypus oils.
I found few soaps that list the ingredients, because it is not made for ingestion. One soap says that ingestion "may result in mild gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting or diarrhea." Another lists that it contains fragrance, PEG-12, sorbitol, glycerin, propylene glycol, "2,6-Di-t-butyl-p-cresol (BHT)," pentasodium pentetate, tetrasodium etidrontate, sodium cholride, water, cocoa butter, talc (non-fibrous), palm kerne; acid, iron oxides, palm kernel acids, and some ingredients that are definitely not toxic.
Yes, if you are making REAL soap there are essentially three things you must have: lye, fats (vegetable and/or animal fats), and water. However, once the soap has completed "saponification" (the soap-making process), there is no free lye. All you have is pure soap. Pure soap is not required by the FDA to have a label listing ingredients, though most soapers do list them because we want people to know that we don't use surfactants, petroleum products, etc. If we did, it wouldn't be soap. Based on the ingredient listing (PEG-12, sorbitol, etc.), that is not soap. If you notice the product label, you will see that it doesn't say it's soap (because it's not). It will say something like "beauty bar", "antibacterial bar", "cleansing bar", etc. As far as handmade soaps being "dangerous" to make, well, not if you know what you're doing and have a healthy respect for the lye and take safety precautions.
_____________________________
*~* Susan *~*
These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world. --John 16:33 KJV
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/28/2008 5:30:42 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3414
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From: a mother who let me live
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Yes, I have made soap before -- that's why I didn't bother with it. But regarding those ingredients, I would never allow a child to have them in their mouth on purpose. As you mentioned, if we must go this direction, pepper, lemon juice, etc.
My son-in-law used to put pepper on my oldest grandson's tongue. One day, my grandson smarted off, my son-in-law did the pepper thang, and my grandson started laughing. He had known what could happen through the day and had slipped sugar and cinnamon in the shaker. We all had a good laugh out of that one, my son-in-law did the pepper thang anyway, and we all went on our way, snickering.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Controlling anger in young children... - 11/29/2008 5:37:51 PM
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MrsTracy72
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quote:
ORIGINAL: woodwind228
MrsTracy, I love that idea! My dd is having anger issues as well so this thread is of great interest to me too. There are a lot of great suggestions here. I like the idea of pepper on the tongue - that should get their attention. I've used lemon juice before when my dd was spitting, which worked very well with her.
We did try vinegar and hot sauce but neither worked. I do like the fruits because not only does it calm them down, but it isn't like a negative because they are telling you what they are not doing and what they need to do and then turning their anger into nice things. No yelling. No arguing and no fussing.
The fruits are actually a project from their class at church. They made a pink heart puzzle, and gave each fruit named in the bible an actual fruit. Then they learned the fruits and what they mean. I ended up using it one day because one of my kids was being sassy and it worked so well that we hung it on the door and now when we need it THEY have to go get it and we go through it together.
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