|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Sexless marriage - 11/24/2009 8:16:55 PM
|
|
|
Rob61
Posts: 19
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline
|
I am new to the forum and don't know where to start. (Maybe this post belongs to the M not sure) But first I am thankful there is a place like this to come and discuss these issues. I wish I had this 30 years ago! I was not sure to add on to an existing post or start new, but here goes. I read a lot on here about the M issue, not all - to much to read all at once, and I read other posts that speak of the topic of marraige without or with little sex. I did want to make a few comments before I say whatever it is I end up saying. The first is, and I hear this at mens bible study and read it here, is that if a man acts in such and such a way, does ABC, his wife will have to submit or change. That is false. It is not always the mans fault - maybe more on average, but not always. There are exceptions and I will say this - Jesus acted and was the perfect man - He did everything right, yet He was rejected, spit upon, and to this day rejected by untold numbers. So I would agree that we act certainly does make a difference in most cases, but to make a blanket statement that we can change a person by acting a certain way is non sense - some will never change that is reality. And at this stage of my life, I act as I do, or my main motive is to please Christ not to get something from my wife. (Which I don't get anyway) I read one of the brothers posts and how he was somehow to blame for all his lack in the bed room and I guess ot hit a hot button. The next thing I see and read is that a person HAS to lust over women, form mental ideas or however you want to put it - another words you cannot M without some sort of purposeful stimuation (sinful lust of whatever sort) that brings on the feelings is also false. Maybe in my 20's, 30's and early 40's (been a Christain 30 years this month - I am 53) I fell at times and did use such measures. But for the last 10 or so years that is not the case. Like an itch that wont go away until it is scratched is the only way to explain how I feel about it. I don't want to make this a book I want to get to my point - which I am still trying to figure out!! My wife does not like sex - she hates it. She thinks it is only for pro creation, at least years ago she used to say that. She does not kiss or hug me. She used to let me do it but not without complaining, hurry up, (It certainly doesnt take me long), and a host of other types of rejection I won't even get into. All I can say is when we did do it on occasion in the past, it was a humiliating embarrasment for me - like I had to beg and maybe I would get lucky. I am not over sexed, 3-4 times a month is all I ever needed. I have not had sex now for over two years, one other time for a year. I had to overcome the resentment and anger that this brought. We tryed councilling, paid and pastoral. My wife will not take advice from anyone and I will leave it at that. This is not to trash my wife I do love her and I know she has issues but will not get help. There are other relational issues she has with just about everyone and childhood / teenage abuse that I know plays a part - but she will not admit it effects her or deal with any of it. So all I have been able to do is say "then Lord please change me" and he has in many ways and continues to do so. I still struggle at times . There is so much more I could say - we are both in ministry, my self more active but still that is both our hearts. My whole life and time revolves around Jesus. But this issue never goes away. I have been racked with guilt and condemnation over having to M to get the monkey off my back. I am not talking addiction, maybe once every 3-4 weeks as an average. But I reach a point where I just can't or do not want to fight it - the stress is tremendous (and I do not look for stimulation - after all these years I don't even look anymore - I turn the channel, turn my head, whatever I need to do - My relationship with Jesus means more to me than a sneek peak or a lusting look). I have gone at times 6 months, one time a full year if memory serves me right. Sometimes a couple months - the worse was when I went a year and then fell. That was so devistating I thought it was over never to return. Then I would ask, if I went that long, why can't I do it again? What torture - I can't answer that and stopped trying. I need to wrap this up so let me say a couple more things and get to my questions. First, I could ask and probably have my wife have sex. She is not terrible person and I am not trying to portray that. But it would be forced - she is not willing. I drop hints on rare ocassions but she just ignores them. She would complain the whole time, make excuses, (if not the first time, then the next time) no hugs or kiss, just do the act as quick as possible - no different than M. I do not want to go through this anymore and have refused to ask her for two years. I can't handle the rejection, and probably the male pride. If that is wrong, tell me. But how many times do you kick the dog before he does not want to come anymore? Am I letting her off to easy? (I want to clarify - I am in shape, take a shower every day, work hard and provide, try to be the best husband I can, bend to do things she likes, live for Chist with all my heart - I am not perfect by any means but I strive to be my best) I am at a loss in this sense - I feel guilt and like garbage when I M. I used to be a lot worse and realy be tortured. I have come to the conclusion after decades of prayer that this will probably not go away (the occasional urge). I no longer think I will go to hell for M. I no longer run from God when I do this - I used to, I would punish myself by being afraid to come and ask forgiveness since I repeated my "sin" and was a hypocrite. I don't see it that way now, I run to Him. I know only He knows my heart, that I don't want to do this. I don't care about sex and would gladly give up whatever pleasure (very little except for the release) in a heart beat. I know in its original context sex was beautiful - but it is marred and spoiled at least in my case. There is a drive God put there in all of us and in many cases it has gone sour for multiple reasons. Mine is given here. I don't know how to view this, maybe an outsider can relate and say something here that God can use that might help me. I can't quite come to the conclusion that M is somehow OK. Yet, what else am I suposed to do? Is it sin? I beat that to death on my head. I know there are two camps on that. Might as well argue about calvanism - what one side beleives seldom changes the other and the debate never ends. I have to come to that conclusion myself, (but there is relief knowing I am not alone with this struggle). I don't want to be soft on sin (if it realy is sin), or convince myself into believing a lie.
Before I forget I wanted to make one more general point which I should have done above when I started. By way of example, at a Chaplians meeting we had two men who were recovered alcholics. One had a miraculas delivery from drugs and alchol - no struggle - over 30 years ago and never went back. another brother is clean, yet still needs AA and spoke about how he wants to start a Christ centered AA (not a higher power but Jesus). Then the brother who had the miracle denounced AA, he didn't need that God can do it all like he did for Him. He did this tactfully but the end was the same. Another words God did this for me and He will do it for you (which implies you must be doing something wrong if not delivered) - my point is, I see this with this issue. Some can get free - but just like the brothers I mentioned, one is a miracle and rare, the majority have to struggle. I don't know why that is. But please don't do this to your brothers - those who may have the ability to not M or have been able to quit and never go back, praise God for what He has done. But have a little compassion on those who are still struggling with issues - this one or any sin that someone is trying to resist.
I appoloze for the long rambling post, but I had a lot I need to get off my chest.
God bless
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 11/25/2009 8:20:56 AM
|
|
|
johndoo
Posts: 25
Joined: 11/7/2009
Status: offline
|
Rob,
May God bless you for your faithfulness in marriage.
I've read your entire post and empathize with you and have prayed for you. I don't know if this will help, but here's my insight. Your wife has a sex aversion to some degree and she apparently doesn't need physical touch/affection/sex - that isn't her love language. You do need those things - they are your love language, one of your top emotional needs. God gives us our sexuality. You aren't sinning. Out the whole debate about this in Christian circles, I've taken from it that if the spouse isn't neglected and if there isn't lust involved, it's acceptable. I personally think that we function better if our needs are met. I don't know if marriage counseling is an option given that your wife is closed to that. Without sinning, you can get your need for touch met through massage therapy. It's not real intimacy so you still lack that. All marriages have challenges and because you've chosen to stay with it, hopefully you can see the positive things about your marriage and be content with that and overlook the things that can't be changed. Your wife is being selfish in that despite your requests, she is unwilling to help meet your needs in any way. Could she agree to only cuddling on the couch or holding hands watching TV? Sometimes very blunt conversations are necessary to speak your mind but it may or may not lead to change.
Take care.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 11/25/2009 9:38:18 AM
|
|
|
stamper_ben
Posts: 4266
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
|
You are accepting of the lack of a sex life with your wife. Yet you still have those physical needs. So you take things in hand (sorry for the pun) to relieve that.
I believe the act itself is not a problem, any problem will be what's in you head during that time. Are you centering your thoughts on a desire for your wife?
_____________________________
In 20 years from now, you’ll be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Explore. Dream. Discover
Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 11/25/2009 12:22:23 PM
|
|
|
fosco_bunce
Posts: 10
Joined: 12/5/2006
Status: offline
|
hello rob61,
not sure if I digested all of that. when ppl are wordy I tend to tune out.
That is my old behavior before getting into recovery. I can relate to the issues. When I got into recovery, the resentment of not getting love from my wife only wanted me to act out more. I learned what to do with my resentment, like my addiction and don't go there anymore.
When my wife and I got married she carried emotional issues from her X and from family of origin. So intimacy was a problem. We had a lot of problems being intimate, not talking sex here. We both had problems sharing our feelings with each other. Not sure if this is a problem here. When I learned how to open up and share my feelings, I also had to help her by asking about hers. She needed to feel safe sharing hers as well as I needed to feel safe sharing mine.
This was not easy, there were times she stepped on mine. I would feel hurt and isolate, be resentful and act out more.
we go on marriage retreats with our church. And, it has helped both of us to get away from kids and learn about this male/femail thinking. We both learned alot about ourselves and men and women thinking. It has helped both of us. We can't afford couseling.
Long story short God is doing for us what we can't do for ourselves. But, we both have to work on this marriage thing. I would suggest taking the next right action to save both of you. Getting in message therapy is one of the things I hear from other addicts, it didn't help them it drove them farther into addiction. Don't do that. From my experience being physically connected with someone makes me emotionally vulnerable and would drive me farther into my addiction. (looking for love outside of marriage).
Far as M, only after being in recovery for about 10 years can I say that I surrender my sex and those thoughts about sex to God. I am powerless over them and can't occupy them in my mind or I will be out there acting out with someone.
Of course if you wish to correspond privately send me a email. God bless you in your road to recovery. JamesL
_____________________________
F.R.O.G
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 11/26/2009 7:50:12 AM
|
|
|
Rob61
Posts: 19
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline
|
Thanks for the responces brothers - I will say even though it sounded like the end of the world for me in my long winded post, the worse is past. The first 20 or so years of a life like this were much worse on me. I was bitter and resentfull, and the guilt was overwhelming. As a Christian I know I was wrong, both for the anger I felt towards my wife for the rejection, and for "taking things in my own hands" (good one brother - I am still laughing at that one!) and afterwords blaming my wife because of it and holding it against her as an obsession. I had to make a choice to forgive and as I said before say "Lord if she won't change, change me". That was one of the best decissions I had to make. I still battle with resentment and anger when the "time comes", but it is short lived and a constant choice to drop it and forgive. I really can't open up or have a genuine converstaion with my wife, it is more brother and sister type relationship. She will not bend or listen to anyone. Conversations are one way-her way and everyone else is wrong. I have tried so many times to break through the barrier and failed I can't go there anymore. My wife does not speak to her family or bother with mine, so even today on Thanksgiving (and Christmas) I go to my brothers alone, and will get a call to come over to her sisters and her niece - again alone - this is how it is all the time with outside relationships and events - and that hurts to I am always doing things alone - but again forgiveness is the only option I have, we can't choose our trials so thats the way I have to look at it - it could be worse. That is the way it is but enough about that. It is not easy but it is not impossible either - with Jesus He provides a way to make it through even if it is not the way I would like it to be. If it were not for Him I do not know where I would be right now. This is getting to long so better cut it off now. Thanks again.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 11/30/2009 1:08:31 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4125
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
I feel for ya bro! BTDT. Married 32 this last Sept.
The first 20 were a real drag. But something happened with one of our daughters and our pastor suggested couples counseling. When the counselors found out what was going on (or actually NOT going on) the wife started teaching DW about why it is important.
While we are still not breaking any records, it is a LOT better.
I suggest counseling by a good christian marriage therapist. In 1 Cor 7 Paul calls this "defrauding" your spouse:
1Co 7:5 (ASV) Defraud ye not one the other, except it be by consent for a season, that ye may give yourselves unto prayer, and may be together again, that Satan tempt you not because of your incontinency.
King James also uses "defraud" while other more modern translations tone it down a bit - "stop depriving one another..."
Either way you translate it, she is violating this scriptural command.
The greek word is apostereō, meaning to deprive; to despoil: - defraud, destitute, kept back by fraud. (Strongs)
< Message edited by DaveW -- 11/30/2009 1:17:11 PM >
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
=======================
Winner of 2010 "best in "He Says"
=======================
Our CD is available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/3/2009 4:31:06 PM
|
|
|
anth1225
Posts: 2
Joined: 12/3/2009
Status: offline
|
Newbie here offering my 2 cents.
First did you ever hear of paragraphs bro? I mean it makes for easier reading.
Anyway too often we struggle with personal sins and beg God to take away the desire supernaturally. In like manner we pray for others whose actions and attitudes are afflicting us and pray the same way.
Guess what? While God can take things away supernaturally there is an accountability factor that has to be addressed.
I was reading in Romans 8 and those who live according to the sinful nature has their minds set on what that nature desires. Like so with the Holy Spirit. It's a choice on our part.
Later in Romans God says the Holy Spirit helps us, His part.
You've lived with this for a long time now and venting may help you emotionally it doesn't fix the problem.
You've vocalized honestly your situation but your wife has chosen not to hear you or care. Sorry but that's about it in a nut shell.
I'm also in a marriage where the sex would be good but her obesity puts me way off. Talking about it has yielded nothing so I just had to make a decision: do I put up with it or move on?
I figured for my kids sake I put up with it and don't complain. I made my decision knowing it will never change. I pray but really the ball was put in her court like you put the ball in your wife's court.
Whatever they do with the knowledge is now left entirely up to them.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/3/2009 7:05:41 PM
|
|
|
Rob61
Posts: 19
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline
|
anth1225, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. First, I thought I did appologize for the long post. To be honest the day I wrote that was a day of pain and struggle like I have not had in some time. My thoughts were not on paragraphs - but I will try to remember that.
I fully realize spilling my guts does not solve anything, I never thought it would. But it does act like a pressure releif valve as long as it is occasional and you don't make a habbit of it - I had a lot of feelings built up, and knowing others go through simular experiances does help - you realize you are not an odd ball and alone in certain struggles - something the devil would love us all to believe.
I understand the passage in Romans, but I think there can be a big difference between setting your mind on the flesh, living according to the sinful nature - and then trying as a Christian to love and serve God with all your heart. We do live with impulses and natural urges that God has put there. He made the right outlet in marraige, yet in an imperfect world things do not always go as planned. It apperently is not for me, and from your responce it looks like you have a simular problem. I don't know how you deal with it on your end, maybe you are one of the fortunate ones who can ignore or not occasionaly give in - I know some men can do this so I woud not doubt it one minute. But by the size of the posts on the M question it must be the exception and not the rule.
But to end this since it is getting to long, I guess I was looking for some way to know if the occasional M question is sinful. Not that anyone can realy answer it for me I must decide between God and myself, but to know how other Christain brothers deal with it at least gives me something to work with other than my own looped thoughts on the matter. Sometimes outside eyes can see something we are blind to. I have been grappling with that for some time, a long time. And I am thankful for all the responces I got openly and on PM's.
I also decided to put up with it - many years ago. Divorce is not an option. I also have decided not to complain, although sometimes I fall - but I can assure you I am not as bad on complaining as I was 10 or 15 years ago!
God bless
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/3/2009 9:25:43 PM
|
|
|
standingstrong.cd
Posts: 16
Status: offline
|
Hey Rob61, on the subject of sin or not , for me it would be sin
because I would have to let my mind go! and for me that would not be in line with the word, to have the mind of Christ.
any way your not alone.
< Message edited by standingstrong.cd -- 12/3/2009 10:31:10 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/4/2009 11:24:30 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4125
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
I also decided to put up with it Sounds like me about a decade ago. It was not until someone outside held her accountable that things started to change.
Rom 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
This includes husbands or wives that are not acting like husbands and wives.
Heb 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.
Congregational leadership is to have authority over the congregants in their churches. They are to exhort, teach and at times COMMAND obedience to the scriptures, including this one:
1Co 7:3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.
1Co 7:4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
1Co 7:5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
=======================
Winner of 2010 "best in "He Says"
=======================
Our CD is available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/5/2009 8:40:36 AM
|
|
|
Rob61
Posts: 19
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
1Co 7:3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.
1Co 7:4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
1Co 7:5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Dave, yes this is how it ought to be. I understand and have sought councilling on this over the years - we did this. It is not even that I could not demand or force the issue. I have done that in years past. Not physical force but in all types of argument, using scripture, reasoning, etc. This is not a year or two issue, but one that has gone on for decades.
What it boils down to is if I have to beg, plead, (maybe that is being dramatic), but if a spouce does not freely ever want to do this, and if a person just is not one that likes to be close, cold I guess - not just sex but in general - not just towards me but towards family and others which I don't want to get into, then where does that leave a person? I elluded to asking if I was wrong in my first post. Am I letting her get off to easy? I feel like if I have to twist her arm, or go through a humiliating ritual after all these years I don't want to lower my self myself anymore - I have some pride hopefuly it is not the wrong kind in this instance. I have done that and don't want to go through that again - (yet again the question pops up - how degrading is M? I certainly don't feel like a man when I occasionaly give in to that either)
I understand that this is not something unique altogether - even the world jokes about women not wanting to have sex after they are married for a while - it should not be like that with two Christians if they understand and obey the scriptures. I can understand if a wife does not like it and does not know her role, and then expounding the scriptures to her (or him). But when that has been done over and over, at what point do you stop begging, when do you come the conclusion that is love is not freely given and you have to force the issue, you just stop asking? Thats where I am.
Right now I am fine - I can live with this most of the time now - it is only when the urge comes and pushes me until I can't take the pressure - and like I said - usualy several weeks, sometimes months, sometimes much longer - and then the fall. Is that sin assuming I am telling the truth - no lust, no thoughts of women, just get it over with so I can move on? I am not realy asking the question anymore, there are only two obvious answers and I have receieved both of them and I understand both sides - and I flip flop between them at times. "To him that knows to good and does it not, to him it is sin" Well I don't feel like M is good - I do not seek it for pleasure or desire it, yet there are urges, and if this were not a strong urge then the scritpure would not say come together lest you be tempted for your lack of self control, and all the other scriptures that speak of marraige at least in part to control sexual expression. But it takes two willing partners - not one - and I guess this is a good example.
God bless.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/7/2009 8:55:33 PM
|
|
|
ajlewis
Posts: 124
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob61
I am new to the forum and don't know where to start. (Maybe this post belongs to the M not sure) But first I am thankful there is a place like this to come and discuss these issues. I wish I had this 30 years ago! I was not sure to add on to an existing post or start new, but here goes. I read a lot on here about the M issue, not all - to much to read all at once, and I read other posts that speak of the topic of marraige without or with little sex. I did want to make a few comments before I say whatever it is I end up saying. The first is, and I hear this at mens bible study and read it here, is that if a man acts in such and such a way, does ABC, his wife will have to submit or change. That is false. It is not always the mans fault - maybe more on average, but not always. There are exceptions and I will say this - Jesus acted and was the perfect man - He did everything right, yet He was rejected, spit upon, and to this day rejected by untold numbers. So I would agree that we act certainly does make a difference in most cases, but to make a blanket statement that we can change a person by acting a certain way is non sense - some will never change that is reality. And at this stage of my life, I act as I do, or my main motive is to please Christ not to get something from my wife. (Which I don't get anyway) I read one of the brothers posts and how he was somehow to blame for all his lack in the bed room and I guess ot hit a hot button. The next thing I see and read is that a person HAS to lust over women, form mental ideas or however you want to put it - another words you cannot M without some sort of purposeful stimuation (sinful lust of whatever sort) that brings on the feelings is also false. Maybe in my 20's, 30's and early 40's (been a Christain 30 years this month - I am 53) I fell at times and did use such measures. But for the last 10 or so years that is not the case. Like an itch that wont go away until it is scratched is the only way to explain how I feel about it. I don't want to make this a book I want to get to my point - which I am still trying to figure out!! My wife does not like sex - she hates it. She thinks it is only for pro creation, at least years ago she used to say that. She does not kiss or hug me. She used to let me do it but not without complaining, hurry up, (It certainly doesnt take me long), and a host of other types of rejection I won't even get into. All I can say is when we did do it on occasion in the past, it was a humiliating embarrasment for me - like I had to beg and maybe I would get lucky. I am not over sexed, 3-4 times a month is all I ever needed. I have not had sex now for over two years, one other time for a year. I had to overcome the resentment and anger that this brought. We tryed councilling, paid and pastoral. My wife will not take advice from anyone and I will leave it at that. This is not to trash my wife I do love her and I know she has issues but will not get help. There are other relational issues she has with just about everyone and childhood / teenage abuse that I know plays a part - but she will not admit it effects her or deal with any of it. So all I have been able to do is say "then Lord please change me" and he has in many ways and continues to do so. I still struggle at times . There is so much more I could say - we are both in ministry, my self more active but still that is both our hearts. My whole life and time revolves around Jesus. But this issue never goes away. I have been racked with guilt and condemnation over having to M to get the monkey off my back. I am not talking addiction, maybe once every 3-4 weeks as an average. But I reach a point where I just can't or do not want to fight it - the stress is tremendous (and I do not look for stimulation - after all these years I don't even look anymore - I turn the channel, turn my head, whatever I need to do - My relationship with Jesus means more to me than a sneek peak or a lusting look). I have gone at times 6 months, one time a full year if memory serves me right. Sometimes a couple months - the worse was when I went a year and then fell. That was so devistating I thought it was over never to return. Then I would ask, if I went that long, why can't I do it again? What torture - I can't answer that and stopped trying. I need to wrap this up so let me say a couple more things and get to my questions. First, I could ask and probably have my wife have sex. She is not terrible person and I am not trying to portray that. But it would be forced - she is not willing. I drop hints on rare ocassions but she just ignores them. She would complain the whole time, make excuses, (if not the first time, then the next time) no hugs or kiss, just do the act as quick as possible - no different than M. I do not want to go through this anymore and have refused to ask her for two years. I can't handle the rejection, and probably the male pride. If that is wrong, tell me. But how many times do you kick the dog before he does not want to come anymore? Am I letting her off to easy? (I want to clarify - I am in shape, take a shower every day, work hard and provide, try to be the best husband I can, bend to do things she likes, live for Chist with all my heart - I am not perfect by any means but I strive to be my best) I am at a loss in this sense - I feel guilt and like garbage when I M. I used to be a lot worse and realy be tortured. I have come to the conclusion after decades of prayer that this will probably not go away (the occasional urge). I no longer think I will go to hell for M. I no longer run from God when I do this - I used to, I would punish myself by being afraid to come and ask forgiveness since I repeated my "sin" and was a hypocrite. I don't see it that way now, I run to Him. I know only He knows my heart, that I don't want to do this. I don't care about sex and would gladly give up whatever pleasure (very little except for the release) in a heart beat. I know in its original context sex was beautiful - but it is marred and spoiled at least in my case. There is a drive God put there in all of us and in many cases it has gone sour for multiple reasons. Mine is given here. I don't know how to view this, maybe an outsider can relate and say something here that God can use that might help me. I can't quite come to the conclusion that M is somehow OK. Yet, what else am I suposed to do? Is it sin? I beat that to death on my head. I know there are two camps on that. Might as well argue about calvanism - what one side beleives seldom changes the other and the debate never ends. I have to come to that conclusion myself, (but there is relief knowing I am not alone with this struggle). I don't want to be soft on sin (if it realy is sin), or convince myself into believing a lie.
Before I forget I wanted to make one more general point which I should have done above when I started. By way of example, at a Chaplians meeting we had two men who were recovered alcholics. One had a miraculas delivery from drugs and alchol - no struggle - over 30 years ago and never went back. another brother is clean, yet still needs AA and spoke about how he wants to start a Christ centered AA (not a higher power but Jesus). Then the brother who had the miracle denounced AA, he didn't need that God can do it all like he did for Him. He did this tactfully but the end was the same. Another words God did this for me and He will do it for you (which implies you must be doing something wrong if not delivered) - my point is, I see this with this issue. Some can get free - but just like the brothers I mentioned, one is a miracle and rare, the majority have to struggle. I don't know why that is. But please don't do this to your brothers - those who may have the ability to not M or have been able to quit and never go back, praise God for what He has done. But have a little compassion on those who are still struggling with issues - this one or any sin that someone is trying to resist.
I appoloze for the long rambling post, but I had a lot I need to get off my chest.
God bless
Am I supposed to read all this?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/8/2009 5:00:34 PM
|
|
|
Rob61
Posts: 19
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline
|
AJ, Unless someone is twisting your arm I don't think you have to read my rambling post, which I freely admit was a long whine under a trying cercumstance.
God bless
< Message edited by Rob61 -- 12/8/2009 5:23:34 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/13/2009 10:56:24 AM
|
|
|
Gigem08
Posts: 277
Joined: 10/9/2006
Status: offline
|
Rob, I read the whole thing and man I do feel for you. I'm not married yet and I can only hope and pray that your circumstances do not become my life as well. I will be praying for you and your wife that she will have a change of heart and start to like it. I know it seems close to impossible this late in the game but hey, nothing is impossible with God right? I will pray that she just out of the blue surprises you and that it is fantastic.
_____________________________
Jonathan S. Wilder
I only ask that you be real...
(Me)
(Please call me Jonathan, THANKS!)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/13/2009 4:35:45 PM
|
|
|
standingstrong.cd
Posts: 16
Status: offline
|
In my personal life I would say take your time to find the best mate
for yourself Jonathan, a proverbs 31 lady. and how you get along with her family or vice versa will make a impact in your lives in the future.
God bless
Yes Rob it can change for the better for you, real soon! just give it to the Lord! and if you fall git back up! and give it to God again! nothing is impossible with our God! God bless
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/13/2009 4:56:11 PM
|
|
|
Rob61
Posts: 19
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline
|
Thanks Johnathan for the responce. I am blessed in so many other ways I almost feel guilty I ever posted this. I am gratefull to the Lord for all He has done and is doing in many other areas in my life. I don't know why this particular area is such a trial & on going for so long, but things could be worse, I know it didn't sound like it when I started this.
You can't go into all the details (I know how that sounds considering the length I wrote - which I won't do again), not to make excuses but events in my wife's life cetainly contributed to the shell she has built around her and intimacy is not in her makeup - I try to keep that in perspective. Practicing forgiveness and fighting resentment "when the time comes" is part of the battle in this and I can only do this in His power. The less I dwell on it the better!
One last thing - I am sure you know this, but pray and let the Lord direct you. Know His voice and direction when you do find that special woman - one who loves the Lord and will serve Him on His terms - His terms, thats the key.
And yes, all things are possible with God!
Bunch of great guys on here - God bless you all.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/19/2009 10:03:19 AM
|
|
|
AnalystsAreUs
Posts: 186
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
Rob61
Your wife could have physical issues(hormone etc.). Then again, she may not. From what you have described, it seems to be more of an attitude thing. This may or may never get fixed. Has she ever read any Christian books on marriage and sex? If not, I would suggest that you get some. You can not read the Bible and tell me that sex is just for having babies.
There are times in a marriage that you have to fight for what is right. And when I say fight, I mean fight. I not saying that you have to yell, but you need to get your point across in a very matter of fact way such that the other party knows that you mean business.
If I were you, I would be very honest with her. I would write the following on a while sheet of paper and hand it to her:
***********
1 Cor 7: 2 - 5
Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
When I want and need to have sex, will
A. She meet those needs?
B. Have you meet those needs by other means?
************
I would also tell her that you are not going to beg for sex anymore. She is an adult and she knows when you are trying to communicate your desires. Tell her that when she refuses that she is acting like a solied brat and that she is sinning.
That being said, things may never change for you. As you know, life for the Christian can be most difficult at times and these times can last till you die. Trust me I know. I have been depressed for at least 16 years. It's been so long I really don't even know how long its been.
_____________________________
The needs of the many depend on the courage of the few.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/21/2009 11:24:24 PM
|
|
|
MisterKen
Posts: 2
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
not sure if I digested all of that. when ppl are wordy I tend to tune out.
quote:
First did you ever hear of paragraphs bro? I mean it makes for easier reading.
quote:
Am I supposed to read all this?
Wow.
What great examples of Christ-like compassion and love. You guys should be really proud of yourself.
The guy comes here hurting and all you can do is complain about how difficult it is to read. Do you want to go back and correct his punctuation or spelling?
All of you should get together and build a bridge so you can get over yourselves. Shame on you.
Rob61, I want to encourage you and your wife to find biblical counseling. A good place to start is "The National Association of Nouthetic Counselors" Go to http://www.nanc.org/ to try and find a counselor in your area. A good Christian counselor would be able to open up some lines of communication for you and your wife. I can only speculate what issues your wife has but they are issues. Wanting to have sex with your wife is natural and good. The bible is rife with examples of this. I pray that the Lord direct you to the right person who can help you both.
God Bless.
-K
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 12/25/2009 5:46:07 PM
|
|
|
Rob61
Posts: 19
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline
|
Thanks Ken, yes I was a little put off by a couple of the remarks, I had to edit one responce so I did not use the same type of sarcasm my flesh wanted to use in return. I said it several times but I was in a real low period when I posted that and I am out of it now. In hind site I wish I never posted it, but I did so it is what it is. On occasion I do go through some depression over it but all in all I am truely blessed and live my life for Christ to the full.
As far as your comments on the way a few came across, I have been around long enough that I don't let those things get me any more. I might get a rise over it temporarily, but I have put my foot in my mouth more times that I care to admit myself over the years.
What does concern me is if a young Christain, or someone really sensitive bore their soul and got remarks like that - what effect might it have on them?
Jesus said better to hang a mill stone around your neck than to offend one of his little ones. I hope they get the point for others sake. If you can't say something usefull and worth while don't say anyting at all, especially when someone is hurting.
God bless
< Message edited by Rob61 -- 12/26/2009 2:29:16 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 1/5/2010 12:17:18 PM
|
|
|
MisterKen
Posts: 2
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
What does concern me is if a young Christain, or someone really sensitive bore their soul and got remarks like that - what effect might it have on them?
I cannot agree with you more. In many ways, this kind of forum feels 'safe' for people to share and share deeply. But that safety also allows people to be senseless and rude with no immediate feedback. That pushes my buttons. BIG time.
You are a gracious man who thinks before he speaks. I pray God would help me be more like that.
Have you and your wife talked recently about your relationship? What are you doing to restore your relationship?
Again, I cannot say enough about biblical counseling. Our church got involved in this about 11 years ago and it has been a blessing to our congregation. Lives have been restored and people brought closer to God because of it.
God Bless,
-K
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 1/25/2010 7:41:27 PM
|
|
|
bibleguy2
Posts: 3
Joined: 3/21/2009
Status: offline
|
Hey Rob
Is this still an issue? Do you still post here?
Hard to believe that this has continued so long. Your wife is in obvious need of healing and repentance.
But, that can't be placed upon her. Her eyes have to be opened to it.
I'll see if you are still posting and get back to you. my two cents.
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 1/26/2010 2:05:15 AM
|
|
|
_Don_
Posts: 263
Joined: 5/13/2007
From: Close enough to the mountains.
Status: offline
|
Sorry to hear what you are going through Rob61! I pray that God will give you wisdom and grace you need to get through this...
I know it's a bit late but, just in case it helps someone who can help...
ORIGINAL: Rob61
I am new to the forum and don't know where to start. (Maybe this post belongs to the M not sure)
But first I am thankful there is a place like this to come and discuss these issues. I wish I had this
30 years ago! I was not sure to add on to an existing post or start new, but here goes.
I read a lot on here about the M issue, not all - to much to read all at once, and I read other posts
that speak of the topic of marraige without or with little sex. I did want to make a few comments
before I say whatever it is I end up saying. The first is, and I hear this at mens bible study and
read it here, is that if a man acts in such and such a way, does ABC, his wife will have to submit or
change. That is false. It is not always the mans fault - maybe more on average, but not always.
There are exceptions and I will say this - Jesus acted and was the perfect man - He did everything
right, yet He was rejected, spit upon, and to this day rejected by untold numbers. So I would agree
that we act certainly does make a difference in most cases, but to make a blanket statement that
we can change a person by acting a certain way is non sense - some will never change that is
reality. And at this stage of my life, I act as I do, or my main motive is to please Christ not to get
something from my wife. (Which I don't get anyway) I read one of the brothers posts and how he
was somehow to blame for all his lack in the bed room and I guess ot hit a hot button
The next thing I see and read is that a person HAS to lust over women, form mental ideas or
however you want to put it - another words you cannot M without some sort of purposeful
stimuation (sinful lust of whatever sort) that brings on the feelings is also false. Maybe in my 20's,
30's and early 40's (been a Christain 30 years this month - I am 53) I fell at times and did use such
measures. But for the last 10 or so years that is not the case. Like an itch that wont go away until
it is scratched is the only way to explain how I feel about it. I don't want to make this a book I want
to get to my point - which I am still trying to figure out!!
My wife does not like sex - she hates it. She thinks it is only for pro creation, at least years ago she
used to say that. She does not kiss or hug me. She used to let me do it but not without
complaining, hurry up, (It certainly doesnt take me long), and a host of other types of rejection I
won't even get into. All I can say is when we did do it on occasion in the past, it was a humiliating
embarrasment for me - like I had to beg and maybe I would get lucky. I am not over sexed, 3-4
times a month is all I ever needed. I have not had sex now for over two years, one other time for a year.
I had to overcome the resentment and anger that this brought. We tryed councilling, paid and
pastoral. My wife will not take advice from anyone and I will leave it at that. This is not to trash my
wife I do love her and I know she has issues but will not get help. There are other relational issues
she has with just about everyone and childhood / teenage abuse that I know plays a part - but she
will not admit it effects her or deal with any of it. So all I have been able to do is say "then Lord
please change me" and he has in many ways and continues to do so. I still struggle at times .
There is so much more I could say - we are both in ministry, my self more active but still that is
both our hearts. My whole life and time revolves around Jesus. But this issue never goes away. I
have been racked with guilt and condemnation over having to M to get the monkey off my back. I
am not talking addiction, maybe once every 3-4 weeks as an average. But I reach a point where I
just can't or do not want to fight it - the stress is tremendous (and I do not look for stimulation -
after all these years I don't even look anymore - I turn the channel, turn my head, whatever I need
to do - My relationship with Jesus means more to me than a sneek peak or a lusting look). I have
gone at times 6 months, one time a full year if memory serves me right. Sometimes a couple
months - the worse was when I went a year and then fell. That was so devistating I thought it was
over never to return. Then I would ask, if I went that long, why can't I do it again? What torture - I
can't answer that and stopped trying.
I need to wrap this up so let me say a couple more things and get to my questions. First, I could
ask and probably have my wife have sex. She is not terrible person and I am not trying to portray
that. But it would be forced - she is not willing. I drop hints on rare ocassions but she just ignores
them. She would complain the whole time, make excuses, (if not the first time, then the next time)
no hugs or kiss, just do the act as quick as possible - no different than M. I do not want to go
through this anymore and have refused to ask her for two years. I can't handle the rejection, and
probably the male pride. If that is wrong, tell me. But how many times do you kick the dog before
he does not want to come anymore? Am I letting her off to easy? (I want to clarify - I am in shape,
take a shower every day, work hard and provide, try to be the best husband I can, bend to do
things she likes, live for Chist with all my heart - I am not perfect by any means but I strive to be
my best)
I am at a loss in this sense - I feel guilt and like garbage when I M. I used to be a lot worse and
realy be tortured. I have come to the conclusion after decades of prayer that this will probably not
go away (the occasional urge). I no longer think I will go to hell for M. I no longer run from God
when I do this - I used to, I would punish myself by being afraid to come and ask forgiveness since
I repeated my "sin" and was a hypocrite. I don't see it that way now, I run to Him. I know only He
knows my heart, that I don't want to do this. I don't care about sex and would gladly give up
whatever pleasure (very little except for the release) in a heart beat. I know in its original context
sex was beautiful - but it is marred and spoiled at least in my case. There is a drive God put there
in all of us and in many cases it has gone sour for multiple reasons. Mine is given here.
I don't know how to view this, maybe an outsider can relate and say something here that God can
use that might help me. I can't quite come to the conclusion that M is somehow OK. Yet, what else
am I suposed to do? Is it sin? I beat that to death on my head. I know there are two camps on that.
Might as well argue about calvanism - what one side beleives seldom changes the other and the
debate never ends. I have to come to that conclusion myself, (but there is relief knowing I am not
alone with this struggle). I don't want to be soft on sin (if it realy is sin), or convince myself into
believing a lie.
Before I forget I wanted to make one more general point which I should have done above when I
started. By way of example, at a Chaplians meeting we had two men who were recovered alcholics.
One had a miraculas delivery from drugs and alchol - no struggle - over 30 years ago and never
went back. another brother is clean, yet still needs AA and spoke about how he wants to start a
Christ centered AA (not a higher power but Jesus). Then the brother who had the miracle
denounced AA, he didn't need that God can do it all like he did for Him. He did this tactfully but the
end was the same. Another words God did this for me and He will do it for you (which implies you
must be doing something wrong if not delivered) - my point is, I see this with this issue. Some can
get free - but just like the brothers I mentioned, one is a miracle and rare, the majority have to
struggle. I don't know why that is. But please don't do this to your brothers - those who may have
the ability to not M or have been able to quit and never go back, praise God for what He has done.
But have a little compassion on those who are still struggling with issues - this one or any sin that
someone is trying to resist.
I appoloze for the long rambling post, but I had a lot I need to get off my chest.
God bless
_____________________________
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dummy Robot #2
My two favorite things are commitment and changing myself. from Futurama
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 1/28/2010 6:51:23 PM
|
|
|
Rob61
Posts: 19
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline
|
Bibleguy - Still here, actually I was hoping this post would die. I wrote this in a low period - one of those periods we all get from time to time and I guess feel a little embarrased now I wrote it.
The situation with my wife and relations has not changed, but my attitude towards it is fine, I don't dwell on it for the most part and live life as best I can - sort of used to it and adapt.
Haven't had any problem for some time now on the other subject, could be one of those year or longer periods, or maybe it will never return - all things are possible!
Thanks for all the concern and responces.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Sexless marriage - 2/21/2010 3:33:04 PM
|
|
|
Colten
Posts: 3
Joined: 2/21/2010
Status: offline
|
Have you discussed this with your pastor or an doctor about your wife not wanting sex? I would start with those two. I am sure between those two that you will be at least able to come to an understanding as to why your wife does not want to engage in a beautiful, God created act.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
