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We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 2/28/2010 11:02:26 AM
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didymus101
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How does this fact about our nature as "new creatures" relate to the issues of the New Covenant, such as justification and sanctification?
What is and what is of our soul? What is and what is of our spirit?
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 2/28/2010 11:20:02 AM
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drmark
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If we are truly a "tri-unity" then one cannot separate soul and spirit with the questions you have asked.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 2/28/2010 5:33:33 PM
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didymus101
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drmark, please explain. Dividing soul from spirit is essential to what I am asking. Progressive sanctification is for the soul; the spirit is the new creation, without sin and cannot sin. The spirit is infused within us when we are re-born. It is the law written on our hearts. It is the revitalized image and likeness of God.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 2/28/2010 5:57:54 PM
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drmark
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I'm sorry, but I cannot agree that dividing soul from spirit is correct in a tri-une being. That's what unity means - indivisible I also cannot accept that the spirit is unable to sin. That state is reserved for heaven. I guess you will have to find someone else to discuss these issues, didymus.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 2/28/2010 6:21:53 PM
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MrFribbles
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Personally, I'm a unichotamist (which is now officially a word) - I believe we are what we are, and can't be split into different bits. So, I'm not the best person to answer your questions.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 2/28/2010 8:52:21 PM
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didymus101
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Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: three distinct persons but one.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 2/28/2010 8:54:31 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: three distinct persons but one.
I'm not sure if that was in response to my post or not, but - that's hardly proof that humans have three distinct parts/aspects. We are not God. God is perfectly holy - does that mean we are perfectly holy?
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 2/28/2010 9:55:31 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: didymus101
How does this fact
Sorry, I can't agree that this is a "fact". I see no conclusive evidence in scripture to say, with certainty, that man is tri-partite and not bi-partite or uni-partite.
Even if man is body, soul and spirit, then man is not triune. Only God is triune.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 2/28/2010 11:59:40 PM
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didymus101
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We are not merely a duality of the seen and unseen from Greek philosophy. The duality teaching is insufficient in light of the scriptures—there is a difference between soul and spirit. In the Torah and Tanach (Old Testament) in Hebrew, the word for spirit is ruach (roo-akh), while the word for soul is nefesh.
Many times the translators of the Bible to English did us a disservice by using these words interchangeably—they are different. The translators intentionally inserted their biases by not reliably translating literally, and the cause is likely that the translators who did this were Dualists. However, the Bible clearly shows the tri-unity nature of man. Here's one example:
1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify all of you perfectly and whole; and may He keep your spirit and your soul and your body without faults for the arrival of our Lord Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah.
All accepted translations have these three parts. Is this error? Yes, the translators may have used the words interchangeably but if they thought of them that way, then it re-enforces 1Thes5:23 even more.
The sacrifices of the Jews led to forgiveness to the soul and to the body of the person, but NOT TO THE SPIRIT of the person. There is no place in the Tanach where sacrifices resulted in a change of the heart of man or perfected their spirit. It did not cleanse their conscience (heart).
“Truly, truly I say to you, if a person is not born from water and the Spirit, it is impossible that he shall enter the kingdom of God. That which is born from the flesh is flesh; and that which is born from the Spirit is spirit.Jn3:5,6
Another difference is that the New Covenant made the person's heart clean and resulted in a new recreated spirit within them; but it does not perfect the soul (mind, will and emotions) and physical body. If it did, then all Christians would be in perfect health with perfect bodies and would never sin. Obviously, that is not the case.
1 Corinthians 15:44 ...If there is a natural body, there is also a spirit body.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/1/2010 12:10:05 AM
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didymus101
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The below is quoted from the site mentionedby samsonusa: gotquestions.com
"The spirit is the element in humanity which gives us the ability to have an intimate relationship with God. Whenever the word “spirit” is used, it refers to the immaterial part of humanity that “connects” with God, who Himself is spirit (John 4:24).
"The word “soul” can refer to both the immaterial and material aspects of humanity. Unlike human beings having a spirit, human beings are souls. In its most basic sense, the word “soul” means “life.” However, beyond this essential meaning, the Bible speaks of the soul in many contexts. One of these is humanity’s eagerness to sin (Luke 12:26). Humanity is naturally evil, and our souls are tainted as a result. The life principle of the soul is removed at the time of physical death (Genesis 35:18; Jeremiah 15:2). The soul, as with the spirit, is the center of many spiritual and emotional experiences (Job 30:25; Psalm 43:5; Jeremiah 13:17). Whenever the word “soul” is used, it can refer to the whole person, whether alive or in the afterlife.
"The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God."
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/1/2010 6:51:53 AM
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cposey
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I have always thought that we are body, mind and spirit. We are called to be followers of the Way (body, God's strength), believers of the Truth(mind, renewing of our mind) and faithful in the Life(spirit, placing hope and faith in the eternal life waiting for us and the life we live now, directed by God.)
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/1/2010 9:10:30 AM
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drmark
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quote:
I have always thought that we are body, mind and spirit. I agree completely! We are tri-une because our Tri-Une Creator made us in His Image. But just as the Triune Godhead cannot be divided into parts, we cannot be divided into parts either! That's why the OP is asking unanswerable questions by incorrectly trying to separate spirit and soul into different functional parts relative to divine actions such as justification and sanctification. God acts upon the whole being when He justifies and sanctifies, not merely its "parts".
quote:
"The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God." I disagree with this interpretation of Hebr 4:12. The Word of God pierces soul and spirit; It does not pierce soul apart from spirit. How possibly could the Word impact or interact with a human being's essence (soul) if that being was not connected with God (spirit)? These "persons" of unified humanness cannot be artificially separated just because we labor under finite mind and language.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/1/2010 10:19:37 AM
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didymus101
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
I have always thought that we are body, mind and spirit. I agree completely! We are tri-une because our Tri-Une Creator made us in His Image. But just as the Triune Godhead cannot be divided into parts, we cannot be divided into parts either! That's why the OP is asking unanswerable questions by incorrectly trying to separate spirit and soul into different functional parts relative to divine actions such as justification and sanctification. God acts upon the whole being when He justifies and sanctifies, not merely its "parts".
quote:
"The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God." I disagree with this interpretation of Hebr 4:12. The Word of God pierces soul and spirit; It does not pierce soul apart from spirit. How possibly could the Word impact or interact with a human being's essence (soul) if that being was not connected with God (spirit)? These "persons" of unified humanness cannot be artificially separated just because we labor under finite mind and language.
"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double edge sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit..."Hebs4:12
drmark, you seem to be taking a lot of things for granted, making assumptions, about what I am saying.
To say Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is as terrible an "artificial separation" as what you say I am doing, for I am doing nothing less than that: delineating three aspects of one person.
If I say the body is made up of flesh, bone, and muscle am I saying it is three distinct entities? Is this an "artificial separation" or merely a description of a body working as one?
Soul is intellect, will, and emotions: that is not an artificial separation. These aspects are all of one mind working together?
Body, soul, and spirit are three aspects, inseparable, of a person. Intimately interwoven and inter-related.
I honestly cannot see what you are objecting to. When you say we are "body, mind, and spirit," you are making similar distinctions that I made: how do your distinctions avoid "dividing into parts"? Can't you see the contradiction there?
How am I saying that God is not acting on the whole being?
What you used to refute what I say acts to support it.
< Message edited by didymus101 -- 3/1/2010 10:30:57 AM >
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/1/2010 10:31:12 AM
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drmark
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quote:
I honestly cannot see what you are objecting to. When you say we are "body, mind, and spirit," you are making similar distinctions that I made: how do your distinctions avoid "dividing into parts"? Can't you see the contradiction there? I see no contradiction whatsoever! "Parts" are not "aspects"! When you use the term "aspects", I agree with you. When you use the term "parts, I disagree!
quote:
How am I saying that God is not acting on the whole being?
What you used to refute what I say acts to support it. Good for you then, didymus. You must be right!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/1/2010 10:52:09 AM
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mysteryofgospel
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Didymus,
You will never reach like-mindedness with some and it is best to avoid arguments.
To deny that there is a not a division between soul and spirit when the Word says that there is a difference is blindness to scripture IMO.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/1/2010 11:36:29 AM
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drmark
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quote:
To deny that there is a not a division between soul and spirit when the Word says that there is a difference is blindness to scripture IMO. A "difference" is not necessarily a "division". To deny this semantic fact is blindness to the English language. Are you a Greek scholar of sufficient training and expertise to explain the linguistic nuances of the Greek word merismos used only two times in Hebrews? If so, please educate me, mog!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/1/2010 1:26:03 PM
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cposey
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In reference to the passage in Hebrews, i am not familiar with the original language of the text. Is it possible that it is referring to the souls of people and the spirit world being divided? I think that might be key in understandign the truth of this scripture.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/1/2010 3:58:56 PM
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didymus101
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drmark, only when I was replying to you did I notice I used "parts" and not aspects and thus inadvertently caused this misunderstanding. I apologize.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/2/2010 2:39:53 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
know the verse in Thessalonians makes a distinction between Soul and Spirit, but honestly I have never truly understood the significance. I hope you or someone else expound further on this because I would love to understand this teaching.
saved34:
Scripture makes a distinction between the soul and the spirit, because there is a real distinction (Heb.4:12).
The soul is the immaterial part of every human being wherein reside the intellect, reason, emotions, and will. Every "natural man" has a soul, which is "the inner being" of that person -- what Scripture calls "the heart".
However, "the heart" is above all things deceitful and desperately wicked, and it is out of "the heart" that all sin proceeds (Mk. 7:14-23). This is also "the old man" or "the flesh" which is not eradicated at the new birth.
At the same time, all "natural men" are "dead" -- spiritually dead, which means they are unable to communicate with God or understand the things of the Spirit (Eph. 2:1-5; 1 Cor. 2:14)). Therefore when God gives the sinner the new birth (Tit. 3:4-7), He gives him/her "a new heart" and "a new spirit" when He gives that person the gift of the Holy Spirit (Ezek. 36:25-28).
It is the spirit of the believer that can communicate with God through prayer and God's presence, and understand the things of God by the illumination of the Holy Spirit (1 Jn. 2:20,27). It is the Spirit which bears witness with our spirits that we are the children of God, heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ (Rom. 8:16,17).
Those whose spirits are dead will die eternally. Those whose spirits are alive will have eternal life.
As to the "tri-unity" aspect, we should never stretch it too far, since man as a tripartite being can never compare with the eternal triune Godhead. Even using this as a analogy for the Holy Trinity can be very misleading.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/2/2010 2:44:23 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
In reference to the passage in Hebrews, i am not familiar with the original language of the text. Is it possible that it is referring to the souls of people and the spirit world being divided? I think that might be key in understandign the truth of this scripture.
The "spirit world" pertains to angelic beings. These are spirits are termed in Scripture.
But human beings retain soul and spirit together, although in the case of those without the new birth, the spirit is dead while the soul is alive.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/2/2010 6:15:42 AM
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cposey
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quote:
The "spirit world" pertains to angelic beings. These are spirits are termed in Scripture.
But human beings retain soul and spirit together, although in the case of those without the new birth, the spirit is dead while the soul is alive.
Doesn't the spirit world also contain, evil spirits, the Holy Spirit and other things like that?
This is not at all a sarcastic or ill intentioned question, but where does the idea of soul and spirit with humans come from?
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/2/2010 8:24:29 AM
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didymus101
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cposey, Jn3:5-6 says of our re-birth in Christ that anything which is born of spirit is spirit; the soul is born of mankind, of the flesh. In Heb4:12 it reads that the Word is capable of dividing soul from spirit, which is the keen discernment of truth to see what is of the intellect, will, and emotions (soul) of a person and what is of God, the spirit infused at our re-birth. 1thes5:23 affirms there are three aspects that comprise the personhood: body, soul, and spirit.
Through progressive sanctification God is steadily removing the worldliness of the soul which allows this new spirit within us to fill more and more of who we are becoming.
And, yes, the spiritual realm also has evil spirits and that, not the world, is where we do battle.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/2/2010 8:55:48 AM
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drmark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: didymus101
cposey, Jn3:5-6 says of our re-birth in Christ that anything which is born of spirit is spirit; the soul is born of mankind, of the flesh. In Heb4:12 it reads that the Word is capable of dividing soul from spirit, which is the keen discernment of truth to see what is of the intellect, will, and emotions (soul) of a person and what is of God, the spirit infused at our re-birth. 1thes5:23 affirms there are three aspects that comprise the personhood: body, soul, and spirit.
Through progressive sanctification God is steadily removing the worldliness of the soul which allows this new spirit within us to fill more and more of who we are becoming.
And, yes, the spiritual realm also has evil spirits and that, not the world, is where we do battle.
No didymus, that is NOT what Heb 4:12 states. All the more literal English translations read that "the Word of God pierces or penetrates into the "division of soul and spirit", NOT "soul from spirit". Thus I read this to mean that the soul and spirit are actually inseparable when worked upon by God's divine Agency, as translated in the New Century Version, for example:
God's word is alive and working and is sharper than a double-edged sword. It cuts all the way into us, where the soul and the spirit are joined, to the center of our joints and bones. And it judges the thoughts and feelings in our hearts.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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