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EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/21/2010 4:59:20 PM
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Mr57
Posts: 245
Joined: 2/13/2010
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I saw the following in an ID thread. It seemed to be off topic so I thought I'd start a new thread and reply here,
How? Evolution has no religious tenets. No worship ceremonies. It does not hold reverence for any supernatural forces. It imposes no moral laws. It has no rituals, no sacraments, no ceremonies, no attempts to explain ultimate reality.
Just WHAT does evolution have in common with religious beliefs?
Dante
EVOLUTION ISM
EvolutionISM is a religion....the preachers are guys such as Gould, Darwin...Bill Nye the Science guy, etc.
They fervently follows the beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of the above preachers.
Then there are little evongelist such as the false prophest who post on this forum....claiming EVOLUTION ISM IS TRUE....as they thump their text books...Now that is enough to make anyone sick
The evo-scientist always looking for a hand out...offering, can you say grant?
Even your donations to the religion of EvolutionISM are often tax deductable.
Sure the preachers of evolutionISM may not have a stained glass windowed buildings...but they do have lecture halls where the deceived come to hear the latest.
The evos use these institutionalized system to ground themselves in such belief and worship of mans fallible science.
The Christians uses the book of Genesis from the Word of God to help us understand our Godly origins while the disciples of evolutionISM try to force fit fossils into some fragmented gapped filled so-called evolutionary linage.
Christianity says we need salvation...we are all sinners and need the blood of Jesus Christ to wash us white as snow...while the typical evolutionISM believer says there is no sin, no price to pay....no need for salvation. Their claim is man is the measure of all means.
Of course there are different denominations of evolutionISM, considering they all don't believe the same thing. Some are gradual, some are punctuated. Some claim birds are dinos while some preach, no way!. Some followers of organized religious denominational evolutionISM allow god as a creator.
Some of the different sects of evolutionISM have man continuing to evolve and achieving the Omega Point......tell me that's not religion.
Christianity has miracles, evolutionISM has the need for magical mutations.
The evos belief is in reverence for the power of natural selection and other powers regarded as a creation force that governs the universe.
EvolutionISM is truly an ISM theory. It has NEVER been witnesses, predicted or repeated in a lab. There are no examples of morphological mutations.
Most of the followers of evolutionism are fervent in their faith...the way the evos act here easily proves that point.
They follow their cause, their principle, and pursue their activities with zeal and conscientious devotion.
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/21/2010 6:39:33 PM
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Veritas
Posts: 441
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mr57
EVOLUTION ISM
EvolutionISM is a religion....the preachers are guys such as Gould, Darwin...Bill Nye the Science guy, etc.
Every field of study has adherents.
quote:
They fervently follows the beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of the above preachers.
The beliefs are based on evidence. But, just what are the "values and practices based on the teachings of the above preachers"?
quote:
Then there are little evongelist such as the false prophest who post on this forum....claiming EVOLUTION ISM IS TRUE....as they thump their text books...Now that is enough to make anyone sick
Just who are these prophest(sic)?
quote:
The evo-scientist always looking for a hand out...offering, can you say grant?
Even your donations to the religion of EvolutionISM are often tax deductable.
Of course, scientists who study evolution look for grants -- just like scientists in all fields. Is the study of medicine a religion too?
Tax deductible?!?!? I want to know more about that!!!
quote:
Sure the preachers of evolutionISM may not have a stained glass windowed buildings...but they do have lecture halls where the deceived come to hear the latest.
The evos use these institutionalized system to ground themselves in such belief and worship of mans fallible science.
Lecture halls make a religion?!? At my college, English literature was taught in a lecture hall. Is English lit a religion too?
quote:
The Christians uses the book of Genesis from the Word of God to help us understand our Godly origins while the disciples of evolutionISM try to force fit fossils into some fragmented gapped filled so-called evolutionary linage.
Christianity says we need salvation...we are all sinners and need the blood of Jesus Christ to wash us white as snow...while the typical evolutionISM believer says there is no sin, no price to pay....no need for salvation. Their claim is man is the measure of all means.
There are so many things wrong with that paragraph.
Evolution says nothing about sin, salvation nor that man is the measure of all means. There are plenty of Christians who accept the theory of evolution and see no conflict with their religion.
quote:
Of course there are different denominations of evolutionISM, considering they all don't believe the same thing. Some are gradual, some are punctuated. Some claim birds are dinos while some preach, no way!. Some followers of organized religious denominational evolutionISM allow god as a creator.
Some of the different sects of evolutionISM have man continuing to evolve and achieving the Omega Point......tell me that's not religion.
Christianity has miracles, evolutionISM has the need for magical mutations.
The evos belief is in reverence for the power of natural selection and other powers regarded as a creation force that governs the universe.
Are you actually denying that mutations exist?!?!
All natural selection means is that some organisms are better able to survive than others. Creatures that are better able to obtain food or avoid predation are more likely to survive to reproduce. That's all selection is. Natural selection governs life; it is NOT a "creation force that governs the universe". Where did you get that nonsense?
quote:
EvolutionISM is truly an ISM theory. It has NEVER been witnesses, predicted or repeated in a lab. There are no examples of morphological mutations.
Most of the followers of evolutionism are fervent in their faith...the way the evos act here easily proves that point.
They follow their cause, their principle, and pursue their activities with zeal and conscientious devotion.
Everything you've said applies to just about any field of science. Is medicine a religion?
Sports teams are more like a religion that evolutionISM. They don't have stained glass windows, but they have arenas where the faithful gather. And, they have an avatar that represents their mascot, and they treat it like a god. They have cheerleaders that lead the faithful at the services.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dante_Alighieri
How? Evolution has no religious tenets. No worship ceremonies. It does not hold reverence for any supernatural forces. It imposes no moral laws. It has no rituals, no sacraments, no ceremonies, no attempts to explain ultimate reality.
Just WHAT does evolution have in common with religious beliefs?
Nothing you have said comes close to answering Dante's question.
The idea that evolution is a religion seems to have begun when the teaching of creationism (and, of course, ID) in public schools was ruled unconstitutional because the teaching of creationism/ID is promoting religion. If creationists can show that evolution is a religion, then the teaching of evolution would be unconstitutional too. Of course, it's a nonsensical argument, and convinces no one. But we still hear it again and again.
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/21/2010 10:03:03 PM
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Mr57
Posts: 245
Joined: 2/13/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Veritas
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mr57
EVOLUTION ISM
EvolutionISM is a religion....the preachers are guys such as Gould, Darwin...Bill Nye the Science guy, etc.
Every field of study has adherents.
Especially the evolutionist.
quote:
They fervently follows the beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of the above preachers.
The beliefs are based on evidence. But, just what are the "values and practices based on the teachings of the above preachers"?
Based upon evidence or a certain interpretation of evidence?
quote:
Then there are little evongelist such as the false prophest who post on this forum....claiming EVOLUTION ISM IS TRUE....as they thump their text books...Now that is enough to make anyone sick
Just who are these prophest(sic)?
I thought i mentioned them and their types above.
quote:
The evo-scientist always looking for a hand out...offering, can you say grant?
Even your donations to the religion of EvolutionISM are often tax deductable.
Of course, scientists who study evolution look for grants -- just like scientists in all fields. Is the study of medicine a religion too?
Tax deductible?!?!? I want to know more about that!!!
Just trying to point out some of the similarities
quote:
Sure the preachers of evolutionISM may not have a stained glass windowed buildings...but they do have lecture halls where the deceived come to hear the latest.
The evos use these institutionalized system to ground themselves in such belief and worship of mans fallible science.
Lecture halls make a religion?!? At my college, English literature was taught in a lecture hall. Is English lit a religion too?
English lit? Nope...it's not based upon faith like evolutionism is. Then again you already knew that.
quote:
The Christians uses the book of Genesis from the Word of God to help us understand our Godly origins while the disciples of evolutionISM try to force fit fossils into some fragmented gapped filled so-called evolutionary linage.
Christianity says we need salvation...we are all sinners and need the blood of Jesus Christ to wash us white as snow...while the typical evolutionISM believer says there is no sin, no price to pay....no need for salvation. Their claim is man is the measure of all means.
There are so many things wrong with that paragraph.
Such as????
Evolution says nothing about sin, salvation nor that man is the measure of all means. There are plenty of Christians who accept the theory of evolution and see no conflict with their religion.
The religion of evolutionism says there is no need for a God. I already explained that.
quote:
Of course there are different denominations of evolutionISM, considering they all don't believe the same thing. Some are gradual, some are punctuated. Some claim birds are dinos while some preach, no way!. Some followers of organized religious denominational evolutionISM allow god as a creator.
Some of the different sects of evolutionISM have man continuing to evolve and achieving the Omega Point......tell me that's not religion.
Christianity has miracles, evolutionISM has the need for magical mutations.
The evos belief is in reverence for the power of natural selection and other powers regarded as a creation force that governs the universe.
Are you actually denying that mutations exist?!?!
Nope, I said the religion of evolutionism needs MAGIC mutations.
All natural selection means is that some organisms are better able to survive than others. Creatures that are better able to obtain food or avoid predation are more likely to survive to reproduce. That's all selection is. Natural selection governs life; it is NOT a "creation force that governs the universe". Where did you get that nonsense?
quote:
EvolutionISM is truly an ISM theory. It has NEVER been witnesses, predicted or repeated in a lab. There are no examples of morphological mutations.
Most of the followers of evolutionism are fervent in their faith...the way the evos act here easily proves that point.
They follow their cause, their principle, and pursue their activities with zeal and conscientious devotion.
Everything you've said applies to just about any field of science. Is medicine a religion?
Now your getting to ad-hoc with your answers.
Sports teams are more like a religion that evolutionISM. They don't have stained glass windows, but they have arenas where the faithful gather. And, they have an avatar that represents their mascot, and they treat it like a god. They have cheerleaders that lead the faithful at the services.
Nah, not quite. Though I do see your point.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dante_Alighieri
How? Evolution has no religious tenets. No worship ceremonies. It does not hold reverence for any supernatural forces. It imposes no moral laws. It has no rituals, no sacraments, no ceremonies, no attempts to explain ultimate reality.
Just WHAT does evolution have in common with religious beliefs?
Nothing you have said comes close to answering Dante's question.
Then perhaps you ought to re-read my post.
The idea that evolution is a religion seems to have begun when the teaching of creationism (and, of course, ID) in public schools was ruled unconstitutional because the teaching of creationism/ID is promoting religion.
And so does teaching the religion of evolutionism.
If creationists can show that evolution is a religion, then the teaching of evolution would be unconstitutional too. Of course, it's a nonsensical argument, and convinces no one. But we still hear it again and again.
If you hear it again and again...it must have convinced someone.
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/21/2010 11:15:27 PM
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Veritas
Posts: 441
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mr57
quote:
ORIGINAL: Veritas
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mr57
EVOLUTION ISM
EvolutionISM is a religion....the preachers are guys such as Gould, Darwin...Bill Nye the Science guy, etc.
Every field of study has adherents.
Especially the evolutionist.
What do you mean especially??? The people you mentioned aren't preachers they are adherants.
quote:
They fervently follows the beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of the above preachers.
The beliefs are based on evidence. But, just what are the "values and practices based on the teachings of the above preachers"?
Based upon evidence or a certain interpretation of evidence?
Again, Just what are the "values and practices based on the teachings of the above preachers"?
quote:
Then there are little evongelist such as the false prophest who post on this forum....claiming EVOLUTION ISM IS TRUE....as they thump their text books...Now that is enough to make anyone sick
Just who are these prophest(sic)?
I thought i mentioned them and their types above.
quote:
The evo-scientist always looking for a hand out...offering, can you say grant?
Even your donations to the religion of EvolutionISM are often tax deductable.
Of course, scientists who study evolution look for grants -- just like scientists in all fields. Is the study of medicine a religion too?
Tax deductible?!?!? I want to know more about that!!!
Just trying to point out some of the similarities
Likewise. You didn't answer: Is the study of medicine a religion, too?
quote:
Sure the preachers of evolutionISM may not have a stained glass windowed buildings...but they do have lecture halls where the deceived come to hear the latest.
The evos use these institutionalized system to ground themselves in such belief and worship of mans fallible science.
Lecture halls make a religion?!? At my college, English literature was taught in a lecture hall. Is English lit a religion too?
English lit? Nope...it's not based upon faith like evolutionism is. Then again you already knew that.
You are the one who mentioned lecture halls. So lecture halls have nothing to do with whether evolutino is or is not a religion. That's what I thought.
quote:
The Christians uses the book of Genesis from the Word of God to help us understand our Godly origins while the disciples of evolutionISM try to force fit fossils into some fragmented gapped filled so-called evolutionary linage.
Christianity says we need salvation...we are all sinners and need the blood of Jesus Christ to wash us white as snow...while the typical evolutionISM believer says there is no sin, no price to pay....no need for salvation. Their claim is man is the measure of all means.
There are so many things wrong with that paragraph.
Such as????
Such as what follows:
Evolution says nothing about sin, salvation nor that man is the measure of all means. There are plenty of Christians who accept the theory of evolution and see no conflict with their religion.
The religion of evolutionism says there is no need for a God. I already explained that.
The theory of evolution says nothing about the existence or non-existence of God or gods.
quote:
Of course there are different denominations of evolutionISM, considering they all don't believe the same thing. Some are gradual, some are punctuated. Some claim birds are dinos while some preach, no way!. Some followers of organized religious denominational evolutionISM allow god as a creator.
Some of the different sects of evolutionISM have man continuing to evolve and achieving the Omega Point......tell me that's not religion.
Christianity has miracles, evolutionISM has the need for magical mutations.
The evos belief is in reverence for the power of natural selection and other powers regarded as a creation force that governs the universe.
Are you actually denying that mutations exist?!?!
Nope, I said the religion of evolutionism needs MAGIC mutations.
MAGIC mutations? Never heard of 'em. You got a reference for that?
All natural selection means is that some organisms are better able to survive than others. Creatures that are better able to obtain food or avoid predation are more likely to survive to reproduce. That's all selection is. Natural selection governs life; it is NOT a "creation force that governs the universe". Where did you get that nonsense?
quote:
EvolutionISM is truly an ISM theory. It has NEVER been witnesses, predicted or repeated in a lab. There are no examples of morphological mutations.
Most of the followers of evolutionism are fervent in their faith...the way the evos act here easily proves that point.
They follow their cause, their principle, and pursue their activities with zeal and conscientious devotion.
Everything you've said applies to just about any field of science. Is medicine a religion?
Now your getting to ad-hoc with your answers.
Well I try. (Do you even know what ad-hoc means?)
Sports teams are more like a religion that evolutionISM. They don't have stained glass windows, but they have arenas where the faithful gather. And, they have an avatar that represents their mascot, and they treat it like a god. They have cheerleaders that lead the faithful at the services.
Nah, not quite. Though I do see your point.
If you see my point, then why don't you think sports fans are religious?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dante_Alighieri
How? Evolution has no religious tenets. No worship ceremonies. It does not hold reverence for any supernatural forces. It imposes no moral laws. It has no rituals, no sacraments, no ceremonies, no attempts to explain ultimate reality.
Just WHAT does evolution have in common with religious beliefs?
Nothing you have said comes close to answering Dante's question.
Then perhaps you ought to re-read my post.
Already done. And your "replies" that avoid answering my questions.
The idea that evolution is a religion seems to have begun when the teaching of creationism (and, of course, ID) in public schools was ruled unconstitutional because the teaching of creationism/ID is promoting religion.
And so does teaching the religion of evolutionism.
Really? It's not unconstitutional until a duly appointed judge says it is. So... When has a judge ruled that teaching of evolution violates the First Amendment?
If creationists can show that evolution is a religion, then the teaching of evolution would be unconstitutional too. Of course, it's a nonsensical argument, and convinces no one. But we still hear it again and again.
If you hear it again and again...it must have convinced someone.
Tell it to the judge.
I raise the following questions:
Seeing that the field of medicine bears all the traits you attribute to evolution, would you consider the field of medicine a religion also?
Just what are the "values and practices based on the teachings of the above preachers"?
Where is a reference for MAGIC mutations?
You said you saw my point about sports but summarily dismissed them as religions. Why?
Natural selection is NOT a "creation force that governs the universe". Where did you get that nonsense?
Do you even know what ad-hoc means?
When did a judge rule that the teaching of evolution in public schools violates the First Amendment?
And most importantly: Tell me more about those tax deductions!!!!
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/22/2010 4:16:51 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5588
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: online
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quote:
Seeing that the field of medicine bears all the traits you attribute to evolution, would you consider the field of medicine a religion also? I practice the science of medicine every day without resorting to one single faith-based assumption. The power of observational science pervades the field of medicine in clinical trials and individual responses to therapy. On the contrary, evolutionists consistently apply numerous faith-based assumptions from their religion of uniformitarian naturalism every day. The power of observational science is conspicuously absent with every new announcement of a so-called missing link fossil find!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 1:06:03 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2620
Joined: 10/25/2005
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I have a question that needs to be answered first:
What is the definition of "Religion"? Be careful here. Most accepted definitions of "religion" are very inadequate and end up disqualifying certain belief systems that are definitely "religious".
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 2:16:31 AM
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tacitus
Posts: 2304
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: online
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That's a good question, and one you will probably get as many answers for as there are answerers, if truth be told.
After all, even when you look up a dictionary, you don't get just one definition.
Dictionary.com has eight:
Religion:
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
Definitions 1-5 and 7 are closely related and would encompass different aspects of all those belief systems that are widely accepted as religions, including Christianity. Definitions 6 and 8 are more in line with the expression "making a religion" out of something -- like baseball, or the pop idol, or, I guess, evolution.
I know creationists like to claim that evolution is just as much a religion as Christianity is, but they are just too quantifiable different for that to be true. Evolution does not involve a supernatural agency (no, "time" does not qualify) there are no devotional or ritualistic rites (and no, commemorating someone's birthday does not qualify either) and evolution does not prescribe a moral code to govern the conduct of human affairs. Now, people like Humanists may construct a moral code based on the belief that evolution is what got us to this point, but that is a completely separate matter -- it is not intrinsic to evolution is in the same way the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes are to Christianity.
I can certainly see how people could "make a religion" out of evolution -- but that's not the same thing at all. The phrase "making a religion" of something simply implies that they are going too far -- like the guy who spends every spare hour of every day working on his car, or the obsessed teenage fan who lives and breaths the Jonas Brothers.
Simply believing something (with or without evidence) does not make it a religion either. If even may mean you have faith that it is true (reasonable or unreasonable) but without a supernatural component, a moral code, and an established set of devotional and ritual observances it would not pass muster as a real religion.
Of course, there are even Christians who would claim that Christianity isn't a religion at all, but a relationship. I understand why they would want to differentiate it from other religions in that way (given the personal nature of the relationship with Jesus is the most important aspect of the faith of many Christians) but it's plainly incorrect given widely understood meaning of the term.
Language is fluid and changes from generation to generation, and even from year to year, and of course people are free to define words as they wish. Creationists would love nothing more than to influence the widely accepted definition of religion (1-5,7) to the point that it would place evolution on a par with Christianity as a religion since it would place creationism on an equal footing when it came to teaching the two theories in school. (Their failure to make creationism a widely accepted science would then be irrelevant.) But I think they are fooling themselves if they think they will ever succeed in this game of semantics -- mostly because there are so many Christians who also accept religion and see little or no conflict in believing both -- but also because no matter how clever they are at implying that certain specific aspects of the evolutionary science are just like certain specific aspects of Christianity or other religions, when you pull back and look at the whole, the comparisons just don't hold together.
A similar example is the difference between environmentalism and, Wicca, Paganism, or some other naturalistic religion. You can be an ardent environmentalist -- join Green Peace, protest oil companies, live in tepees, or whatever, but that doesn't make environmentalism a religion. Indeed you could quite easily be a Christian and an ardent environmentalist at the same time. One may even heavily influence the other, but they are still quantifiably and qualitatively different from each other.
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 2:32:23 AM
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PolarBear
Posts: 215
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: San Antonio
Status: offline
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I think Darwinism is an important component of a religious worldview, that of naturalism. But it itself is not a "religion". There is a difference.
_____________________________
Who Is This God: Can a ministry-driven film be developed collaboratively on Twitter? (Currently tweeting through Isaiah 40+)
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 3:45:30 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2620
Joined: 10/25/2005
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What is that "difference", PB?
tacitus: I have a response, but I would like to wait for PB's reply.
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 8:06:27 AM
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creaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 9/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
I practice the science of medicine every day without resorting to one single faith-based assumption.
Really?
You dopn't have faith that a prescription will work in a patient? No faith that medical treatments can treat cancer?
quote:
The power of observational science pervades the field of medicine in clinical trials and individual responses to therapy.
And yet ineffective and even dangerous drugs are approved for use, and treatments with efficacies of only 60% are still widely prescribed.
Tell me - is this 'observation' of the sort that lead you to conclude that I had claimed two advanced degerees when I had done no such thing?
Think I'd want a second opinion.quote:
On the contrary, evolutionists consistently apply numerous faith-based assumptions from their religion of uniformitarian naturalism every day. The power of observational science is conspicuously absent with every new announcement of a so-called missing link fossil find!
Whatever you say, 'doctor'....
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 8:17:46 AM
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PolarBear
Posts: 215
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: San Antonio
Status: offline
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A religion is a set of beliefs and rules one follows in order to please a god, or something like that.
A religious worldview is a set of beliefs one has about the ultimate nature of reality. It can involve a god or no god.
So a religion can be closely tied to a religious worldview, but a religious worldview does not necessarily imply religion. If that makes sense.
We could also say that historic Christianity involves a relationship with Christ, not a religion. But it is certainly a religious worldview.
Naturalism is certainly a religious worldview but not religion.
_____________________________
Who Is This God: Can a ministry-driven film be developed collaboratively on Twitter? (Currently tweeting through Isaiah 40+)
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 8:37:29 AM
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drmark
Posts: 5588
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: online
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quote:
You dopn't have faith that a prescription will work in a patient? No faith that medical treatments can treat cancer? That's not "faith" at all! Those are conclusions derived from scientific methodology and personal observation of the evidence. Neither of these have ever once shown that specified complexity arises from random unguided processes, which is the faith that evolutionists possess in thinking NDE has led to earth's biodiversity.
quote:
And yet ineffective and even dangerous drugs are approved for use, and treatments with efficacies of only 60% are still widely prescribed. Is this your admission that evolution has only a 60% probability of being correct... 
quote:
Whatever you say, 'doctor'... Do you need to review my CV in order to carry on meaningful discourse?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 3:01:50 PM
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creaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 9/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
You don't have faith that a prescription will work in a patient? No faith that medical treatments can treat cancer? That's not "faith" at all! Those are conclusions derived from scientific methodology and personal observation of the evidence.
Same as the evidence for evolution.
Thanks for that admission.
quote:
Neither of these have ever once shown that specified complexity arises from random unguided processes, which is the faith that evolutionists possess in thinking NDE has led to earth's biodiversity.
Specified complexity is a post hoc logical fallacy.
quote:
quote:
And yet ineffective and even dangerous drugs are approved for use, and treatments with efficacies of only 60% are still widely prescribed. Is this your admission that evolution has only a 60% probability of being correct...
It is yours that you have faith that the drugs you prescribe might work 60% of the time.
Of course, if evolution were only 60% correct, it is about 60% more correct that the cult beliefs of IDCism and YECism.
quote:
quote:
Whatever you say, 'doctor'... Do you need to review my CV in order to carry on meaningful discourse?
It wouldn't hurt, considering some of the lousy understandings you've demonstrated.
I am reasonably certain I will see no mention of original research, no publications relevant to increasing our understanding of anything related to evolution OR yecism...
Interesting to note that you have yet to respond to the post where I pointed out that I never claimed 2 advanced degrees, which you accused me of doing. Shall I conclude from now on that when you ignore posts it is an admission of sorts?
< Message edited by creaton -- 2/23/2010 3:08:51 PM >
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 3:23:51 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5588
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: online
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quote:
Interesting to note that you have yet to respond to the post where I pointed out that I never claimed 2 advanced degrees, which you accused me of doing. If this is the most important issue to you for discussion, then I have nothing more to discuss with you...have a nice day, creaton.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 4:16:33 PM
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MollyandTim
Posts: 11
Joined: 2/23/2010
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Are gravityism, relativityism, disease theoryism also religions? Or are only the theories the conflict with your personal beliefs religions?
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 4:24:46 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5588
Joined: 7/10/2006
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Welcome to the Forums, MandT!
quote:
Are gravityism, relativityism, disease theoryism also religions? Or are only the theories the conflict with your personal beliefs religions? Can gravity, relativity, and pathogenesis (I think that's what you mean by "disease theoryism") be scientifically observed? Absolutely! They are not derived from faith-based assumptions.
Can creationism or evolutionism be scientifically observed? Absolutely not! They are dependent on singular events which occurred in the ancient past and thus derived from faith-based assumptions. Both are religions by that definition.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 4:34:43 PM
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shakezula
Posts: 683
Joined: 3/9/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Do you need to review my CV in order to carry on meaningful discourse?
i don't know of practicing doctors who have time for anything but medicine. not saying that i doubt your claim that you're a doctor., since i assumed you were retired. but it might be why creaton responded to you that way.
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watch out for the oo moo and the blehblehbleh
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 4:37:03 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5588
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
i don't know of practicing doctors who have time for anything but medicine. Sounds like a very tedious life... 
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 4:53:08 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 2304
Joined: 5/12/2005
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I sort of agree with PolarBear regarding the difference between worldview and religion. (I'm a bit less sure the use of the term "religious worldview" since that would imply that such a thing is a religion.)
Belief in evolution can certainly influence your worldview, that is definitely true, but that doesn't make belief in evolution a religion or even a religious worldview.
"Darwinism" is a interesting example of how definitions change over time. If you read the Wikipedia entry, the term has been around since the year after the Origin of Species was published, and originally included several aspects of evolution that pre-dated Darwin. Today it is both used by scientists as a neutral term to distinguish Darwinian evolution from other strands of evolutionary thought, and as a pejorative by American Creationists for their own political purposes.
I know people here disagree with my comments, but I believe it's very clear that outside of the American creationist community, the idea that evolution, or even Darwinism, should be considered to be and treated as a religion holds no force at all. While, as I said, people can attribute whatever meaning they like to a word, they cannot force society at large to accept that definition. Sometimes those redefinitions take hold (like the word "gay" for example), but more often than not, they don't.
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 9:04:16 PM
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MollyandTim
Posts: 11
Joined: 2/23/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Welcome to the Forums, MandT!
quote:
Are gravityism, relativityism, disease theoryism also religions? Or are only the theories the conflict with your personal beliefs religions? Can gravity, relativity, and pathogenesis (I think that's what you mean by "disease theoryism") be scientifically observed? Absolutely! They are not derived from faith-based assumptions.
Can creationism or evolutionism be scientifically observed? Absolutely not! They are dependent on singular events which occurred in the ancient past and thus derived from faith-based assumptions. Both are religions by that definition.
No, gravitational theory, the theory of relativity, and and the germ theory of disease cannot be observed. Theories are not observable things. They are explanations of observable things.
That bodies of mass attract each other is an observation, explained by gravitational theory. If the Bible stated that we stick to the ground because solely because God wished it so, it would be the theory of gravity that Christians disputed, not evolution.
In the same way that gravity explains we we don't all fly off into space, evolution explains why we exists now when for billions of years we didn't, why fossils are dated as they are, and a thousand other plainly observable facts. If the Bible didn't make statements that Christians believe contradicts these observations, Christians would have no more problem with evolution than they do with relativity.
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/23/2010 11:12:37 PM
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Ohioman1972
Posts: 409
Joined: 8/20/2009
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I don't view evolution as a religion. However, I do view it as being just as philosophical as any religion.
I also view abiogenesis and BBT in the same philosophical light.
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/24/2010 2:03:35 AM
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tacitus
Posts: 2304
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: online
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Describing what happened after the Big Bang? That's science
Describing what happened before the Big Bang? Well, you'll probably have to consult a philosopher (of science) to determine if that question is even valid.
On a completely irrelevant side note, I applied and was accepted for a degree course in the Department of Natural Philosophy of Glasgow University once upon a time. Alas, I see from looking at their web site that the department is no more, or rather it has been renamed as the Department of Physics.
But it's just as well I decided to look elsewhere for a degree. I enjoyed physics in high school, but I would have had a terrible time with all the mathematics that a physics degree course would have entailed.
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/24/2010 8:46:27 AM
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creaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 9/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Interesting to note that you have yet to respond to the post where I pointed out that I never claimed 2 advanced degrees, which you accused me of doing. If this is the most important issue to you for discussion, then I have nothing more to discuss with you...have a nice day, creaton.
Yes, HONESTY and COMPREHENSION are important in this 'debate.'
To me, anyway.
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RE: EvolutionISM is a religion - 2/24/2010 8:49:16 AM
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creaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 9/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Can creationism or evolutionism be scientifically observed? Absolutely not! They are dependent on singular events which occurred in the ancient past and thus derived from faith-based assumptions. Both are religions by that definition.
Utter nonsense.
It seems the 'doctor' doesn't know what assumptions are and how they are used.
When NASA plans a space flight, do they re-perform all of the experiments that lead to an understanding of gravity and inertia and the like? Or do they employ assumptions?
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