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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 9:10:11 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
RC,
I am not trying to cause problems even here. Please read my reply.
Mormons teach that Jesus is the brother of Satan.
When Mormons married in the Temple die, they take their wife and go through black holes to go start their own universes because now they are God also!
This isn't even the beginning of the theological and doctrinal problems they have.
I learned information by asking questions and listening to my science teacher in High School who happened to be the assistant Bishop for the Mormons in our area. I'm thinking he knew what he was talking about RC, don't you?
The book of Mormon is a demonic oracle or a fantastical fiction, but either way it is dangerous trash. In fact, there is so complete a lack of the history provided in the book of Mormon that its clear even to someone moderately educated in the history of the Americas can tell you its a bunch of bunk.
Mormons have never been considered Christians by anyone who is remotely orthodox in the faith and practice, although they've been trying real hard to make folks think so.
Wow, I'd hate to hear what you think about Jehovah's witnesses.
I've listened alot to Glenn Beck. I'm not surprised he's going to Liberty University. He needs to work his audience.
I've listened. I do not anymore. I'll listen to J. Vernon McGee, folks like that. I figure I cannot get enough about Scripture that I have to surrender my mind and ego to the world.
But then that's just my opinion isn't it.
Please try to read up from people who know, like Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults, or such like that. Please. It is worth being informed.
They do not worship God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit three in one. That means they do not worship the same God we do.
I have in no way and do not defend the Mormon Church or its doctrines.
I have mearly been trying to make two points;
one, that we sanctimonous Christians just cannot declare that everyone who attends a Mormon Chruch is lost, does not know God thourgh Jesus Christ, and in hell bound.
Two, That Liberty University states that they choose their commencement speakers based on the speakers moral ethics and family values and do not conider the person's faith or lack of it. And that Liberty university has an absolue right to do so.
That's all folks.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 9:10:31 AM
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gcsjr
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quote:
That is a good question. Somebody up thread mentioned that the more heretical Mormon teachings aren't talked about in their services as much. I don't know if that's true but I'm just saying.
So it's OK to be an active member of a heretical cult if they don't talk about their heretical teachings much in their services. Whether YOU know or not really isn't the issue. These heretical teachings are clearly listed in their statement of faith (see earlier in this thread for the specifics).
quote:
Maybe he's trying to hide them sure but if he really was a committed Mormon wouldn't you think it would have come up at some point during the three hours a day he is on the radio, the hour on TV daily, his website (maybe a bio on the importance of Joseph Smith on Beck Extreme) or the books he has written.
Do you really have doubts that he's a committed Mormon? He talks openly about being part of the Mormon church and is widely used by the Mormon church as part of their recruitment activities. There are several important Mormon figures that Beck has given lengthy tributes to and that he quotes in his books. He gave an emotional Tribute to the late LDS leader Gordon Hinckley during his show on January 29, 2008 (YouTube - Beck Tribute) - Beck points out that people probably don't know who Hinckley was "unless you share his faith", which certainly indicates that Beck is aware that the Mormon church is a distinct and unique body, and is actively committed to that particular church.
Beck has also written the forward for a book by a very controversial (now discredited because of his radical belivefs) Mormon leader named Cleon Skousen, and Beck has recommended his books widely.
quote:
God can judge the validity of that claim. Why should Beck be any different?
Because Beck clearly states that he is a MORMON and Mormons are not Christians.
Let me be clear in saying again that I have absolutely no idea what is in Glenn Beck's heart and I hope that, if he is a Christian, the errors of the Mormon church will be revealed to him and he will leave the church. And, if he is not a Christian, I hope he will become one. Having said that, I think the people on this forum who are trying to defend Beck as an innocent, slightly misguided member of the Mormon church who doesn't really understand Mormon teachings, are ignoring a significant body of evidence that indicates that he is an active, practicing and informed member of the Mormon church.
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 9:10:41 AM
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ken1906_4
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
2) I notice how you casually tossed in "as a non-Christian". Lets see: Beck says he's a Christian and attends a heretical "church", President Obama says he's a Christian and attends what many believe is a heretical church. Granted the Mormon heresies are more deep rooted but can we honestly say that Reverend Wright preaches New Testament Christianity just the way Jesus taught it? But if I doubt Obama's claim then I don't understand salvation and I just don't want Obama in Heaven (Heaven is Heaven in large part because there are no more politics or politicians  ). To my understanding what Beck says in regard to faith is far closer to what Jesus taught than what Obama says. Beck gets Jesus' message of personal renewal. Obama says he's a Christian so I accept that. God can judge the validity of that claim. Why should Beck be any different?
When the Rev. Wright thing hit back in 2008, people were up in arms about Liberation Theology being heretical and racists. Since Obama was under this teaching then people were saying that President Obama was not a Christian. This is even after he said he accepted Christ as Lord and Savior. Ever since 2008 people have questioned President Obama’s faith. There are/were those who have moved him from Christian to false Christian and of course the whole idea that he’s a Muslim is still out there. My whole argument was why is Beck different from Obama? Technically on paper both faiths have teachings that do not totally line up with scripture. IF you do a little unbiased research you will also see how each of these (Liberation theology and Mormonism) view our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and who He is. If we are going to take President Obama to task about his faith and the teaching he received, then we have to do the same thing with Glen Beck. Those defending Beck cannot have it one way just because Beck may share the same political ideology. If they are outside the parameters of what’s in scripture then both theologies should be treated the same.
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 9:13:40 AM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
And for the record if I ran a university that was not a "Christian university" per se I would still try to run it using Christian principles. I would gladly have Beck speak as a commencement speaker. I have no issue with Beck's morals (I would ell him to keep the politics to the bare minimum). If I ran a Christian university devoted to promoting the Name of Christ I would have to be more sure that Beck's beliefs were in line with Christianity before I would have him as a commencement speaker. If I couldn't find out more than I already know I would not let him speak. I would not be sufficiently assured that his beliefs would allow me to give him the tacit endorsement as commencement speaker, basically saying this is the last voice the university wants you to hear before you go forth into the world. But that's just me. Liberty can and should make its own decisions.
The problem as I see it is that it's obviously a move based on Beck's politics. I wouldn't have a problem with him, as a non-Christian, being invited if it was the school's standard policy to invite interesting, thoughtful people from a broad spectrum of society. But it's not. They invite conservative republicans.
I did some more digging and it turns out my premise was even more correct than I thought. Previously, I'd only been able to find the last 2 commencement speakers, but I've since found more. The last speakers have been:
2009: Ben Stein
2008: Chuck Norris
2007: Newt Gingrich
2006: John McCain
2005: Sean Hannity
2004: Karl Rove
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/244498
http://www.somareview.com/blog.cfm?datekey=20050422
http://www.liberty.edu/news/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=11905
I couldn't find anything past that.
I wonder how Newt Gingrich's "moral ethics and family values" line up with those of the school. In case anyone's forgotten, his first marriage (to the mother of his two children) ended when he told her of an affair he was having... while his wife was recovering from cancer surgery. Six months later, he married his mistress. Later, he began cheating on his 2nd wife with a woman 23 years younger than himself. He divorced his wife and married his mistress... again. This 2nd affair began during the investigation of the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal.
Then there's John McCain who basically failed his way upward and left his loyal, devoted, crippled wife for a hot blonde millionaire.
And Karl Rove, the dirty political operative.
The school's line about "moral ethics and family values" is a lie, unless you believe that Republican politics are equal to morality and values.
-Dan.
Ted Kennedy in 1983. I posted a link to video and transcript earlier.
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 9:31:30 AM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
Actually, they're not living up to their mission statement,
Ok, good point. Maybe I should have said their "mission statement" in terms of their actions and what they say in public, not in their carefully crafted PR statement.
quote:
I would be fine with them inviting both Beck & Obama or inviting neither
I think a Christian institution could do better than either of these guys. I do think that Beck's philosophy is closer to Liberty's than the president's. I don't think they are obligated to be balanced between Liberals & Conservatives but a good university will teach students how to think not what to think.
But I do agree that conservative does not = Christian.
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 5/31/2010 9:44:29 AM >
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 9:38:44 AM
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gcsjr
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quote:
one, that we sanctimonous Christians just cannot declare that everyone who attends a Mormon Chruch is lost, does not know God thourgh Jesus Christ, and in hell bound.
Would you mind pointing out where anyone has said anything close to this on this thread. RC, you seem to have put words into other people's mouths to make your points.
The bottom line in all of this is that Glenn Beck actively proclaims that he is a member of the Mormon church and, barring some clear evidence to the contrary, we should probably take him at his word and hope and pray that he will find the truth of Christ and leave the heretical teaching of the Mormon church for a church that teaches the true Gospel.
All of this effort that people put in trying to find a reason that Beck really means "I'm really a Christian who doesn't know enough about Mormon teaching to really understand it, or to know that I should leave this heretical church" when he says "I'm a Mormon" is really nothing but folly.
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 9:42:47 AM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
are ignoring a significant body of evidence that indicates that he is an active, practicing and informed member of the Mormon church.
Until your post I have not seen any such evidence despite asking for it continually. I'm not making the accusations so I'm not going to do the research.
Your post is the first I've seen that addresses what Beck himself has said instead of just discussing the Mormon religion in general and saying since Beck says he's a Mormon he must believe everything they believe.
I don't think I've ever attended a church I was in 100% agreement with and for any thinking person I don't think it's possible. There are so many disputable matters. Of course they got to get the big issues right (and the Mormons do not) but I'd be very uncomfortable equating my personal beliefs about every issue with any church I attended.
But thanks for providing some evidence of Beck's personal beliefs.
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 9:55:49 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr
quote:
one, that we sanctimonous Christians just cannot declare that everyone who attends a Mormon Chruch is lost, does not know God thourgh Jesus Christ, and in hell bound.
Would you mind pointing out where anyone has said anything close to this on this thread. RC, you seem to have put words into other people's mouths to make your points.
When someone, including you, claim that Beck is not, cannot be a Christian because he attends the Mormon Chruch; he is in essence being condemned by those persons.
My postion is not one of defending the Mormon Church or even Beck, it is pointing out to 'Christians" that they should not be limiting God by claiming that He cannot reveal Himself to someone and save someone who happens to attend a Mormon Church.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 10:10:07 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Ted Kennedy in 1983. I posted a link to video and transcript earlier.
That wasn't the commencement address, but yes, Ted Kennedy spoke there in 1983, basically saying the same thing I am right now.
That was 27 years ago, and apparently his message didn't sink in.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 10:42:09 AM
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Rufas2000
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If I'm not mistaken, this is about the third time you or someone else has brought this point up in this thread. And no one has responded yet. And I doubt they will. Which kinda says something, huh?
Actually I said the same thing but in reverse. I personally have never said President Obama was not a Christian. He says he is so I take him at his word. It's up to God to determine if he really is or if he is living up to His (God's) Will.
I can't speak for others but I'm not playing favorites based on political ideology.
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 12:07:16 PM
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gcsjr
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quote:
When someone, including you, claim that Beck is not, cannot be a Christian because he attends the Mormon Chruch
Once again, RC, you're putting words in my mouth. Nobody in this thread has said that Beck "cannot be a Christian" because he attends the Mormon church. What we have said is that beck is a self-proclaimed Mormon, and the teachings of the Mormon church are heresy. So, at best he is a deceived Christian attending a Mormon church.
As I have pointed out repeatedly, Beck is actively being used by the Mormon church as part of their outreach efforts - something that would only be possible with his consent, and actively speaks of his affection for, and admiration of the leaders of the Mormon church, so it seems that he is much more actively involved in the Mormon church, and likely has a much deeper understanding of their core beliefs, than you want to admit.
As I've said repeatedly, it is possible that someone could be a Christian in a Mormon church, but one would have to believe that God would lead them out of that heretical teaching into a place where they could learn the true Gospel and be a part of the body of Christ and the fellowship of believers.
Until that happens with Glenn Beck, the only thing that we know about him for sure is that he is a self-proclaimed active member of the Mormon church. Maybe he doesn't mean that when he says it, but it seems like we should probably assume that he knows what he's saying when he says that. If he doesn't know what he's saying when he talks about his religious beliefs, how can you trust anything else he says?
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 12:10:44 PM
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jaymai
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr
quote:
If I'm not mistaken, this is about the third time you or someone else has brought this point up in this thread. And no one has responded yet.
Maybe that's because this is a thread about Glenn Beck.
"Hey pot"
"What you want, kettle?"
"You're black!"
"Well, so are you!"
"Hey! What's wrong with you? You can't bring that up! This isn't about ME, it's about YOU!"
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 12:17:47 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr
quote:
When someone, including you, claim that Beck is not, cannot be a Christian because he attends the Mormon Chruch
Once again, RC, you're putting words in my mouth. Nobody in this thread has said that Beck "cannot be a Christian" because he attends the Mormon church.
Well in post #41 you posted
quote:
We have the right to judge his actions - as Christians we have a responsibility to speak out against them. Beck actively promotes the Mormon religion, and as such his fruits demonstrate that he is not, and can not, be a true follower of Christ.
Sounds like judgment and condemnation to me, and that is what I have been speaking against in this thread.
But again that just might be me.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 12:20:57 PM
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gcsjr
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quote:
"Hey pot"
"What you want, kettle?"
"You're black!"
"Well, so are you!"
"Hey! What's wrong with you? You can't bring that up! This isn't about ME, it's about YOU!"
Sorry, I misread your previous post...
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 12:30:51 PM
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gcsjr
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quote:
Sounds like judgment and condemnation to me, and that is what I have been speaking against in this thread.
But again that just might be me.
Thanks
RC
Only with a little bit of selective editing on your part. What I said in Post #41 was this:
quote:
We have the right to judge his actions - as Christians we have a responsibility to speak out against them. Beck actively promotes the Mormon religion, and as such his fruits demonstrate that he is not, and can not, be a true follower of Christ.
You can spin it any way you want to but the Mormon church is a cult based on heretical teaching, and Glenn Beck is an outspoken member of that cult. We don't know what's in his heart but the Bible is clear that we are not to tolerate false teaching.
I said the someone who actively promotes a false religion can not be a true follower of Christ - do you really have an issue with that statement?
I certainly believe, and hope, that God will reveal the true meaning of the Gospel to Glenn Beck and call him out of that church (as I do for all Mormons), but you seem to be saying that the true Gospel and the heretical teachings of the Mormon can co-exist peacefully, and that is something that is clearly not biblical.
Do you really believe that someone who actively promotes the Mormon faith can also be a Christian?
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 12:38:58 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7701
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr
quote:
Sounds like judgment and condemnation to me, and that is what I have been speaking against in this thread.
But again that just might be me.
Thanks
RC
Only with a little bit of selective editing on your part. What I said in Post #41 was this:
quote:
We have the right to judge his actions - as Christians we have a responsibility to speak out against them. Beck actively promotes the Mormon religion, and as such his fruits demonstrate that he is not, and can not, be a true follower of Christ.
You can spin it any way you want to but the Mormon church is a cult based on heretical teaching, and Glenn Beck is an outspoken member of that cult. We don't know what's in his heart but the Bible is clear that we are not to tolerate false teaching.
I said the someone who actively promotes a false religion can not be a true follower of Christ - do you really have an issue with that statement?
I certainly believe, and hope, that God will reveal the true meaning of the Gospel to Glenn Beck and call him out of that church (as I do for all Mormons), but you seem to be saying that the true Gospel and the heretical teachings of the Mormon can co-exist peacefully, and that is something that is clearly not biblical.
Do you really believe that someone who actively promotes the Mormon faith can also be a Christian?
Anyway you want to spin it; you stated that Beck was not, and could not be a
Christian.
So I will drop it, but at least have to witherall that when you condems someone to stand by it.
No need to respond, for I will not do the same.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 1:08:31 PM
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iluvatar
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Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Anyway you want to spin it; you stated that Beck was not, and could not be a
Christian.
So I will drop it, but at least have to witherall that when you condems someone to stand by it.
No need to respond, for I will not do the same.
Care to re-visit the "moral ethics & family values" issue again?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 1:16:49 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7701
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Anyway you want to spin it; you stated that Beck was not, and could not be a
Christian.
So I will drop it, but at least have to witherall that when you condems someone to stand by it.
No need to respond, for I will not do the same.
Care to re-visit the "moral ethics & family values" issue again?
-Dan.
What's to visit; Liberty University wanted someone with good moral ethics and family values, and that they got with Glenn Beck.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty University’s commencement. - 5/31/2010 3:09:28 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
What's to visit; Liberty University wanted someone with good moral ethics and family values, and that they got with Glenn Beck.
Is that ideal borne out by their list of past speakers or do you think it's more the case that they choose their speakers based on political ideology?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty Univercommencement.sity’s - 5/31/2010 3:17:06 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
What's to visit; Liberty University wanted someone with good moral ethics and family values, and that they got with Glenn Beck.
Is that ideal borne out by their list of past speakers or do you think it's more the case that they choose their speakers based on political ideology?
-Dan.
Dan, here's your sign; the thread is about "Glenn Beck in Liberty University's commencement"
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glenn Beck in Liberty Univercommencement.sity’s - 5/31/2010 5:55:45 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
What's to visit; Liberty University wanted someone with good moral ethics and family values, and that they got with Glenn Beck.
Is that ideal borne out by their list of past speakers or do you think it's more the case that they choose their speakers based on political ideology?
-Dan.
Dan, here's your sign; the thread is about "Glenn Beck in Liberty University's commencement"
Thanks
RC
That's right, RC, it is. And for the last 10 pages you guys have been arguing about how Christian Glenn Beck is, while mostly ignoring the other half of the OP - Liberty University and WHY they invited him.
I put his invitation into some context - i.e. whom else they have invited in the recent past. You repeat the school's claim that, "Commencement, however, has always featured leaders from all walks of life and all faiths who share the university’s social values and traditional family values." I'm challenging that claim. I'm accusing them of selecting their speakers based on political affiliations, not on their "social and traditional family values." Newt Gingrich is a serial philanderer. Karl Rove is a dirty, nasty political operative. Glenn Beck is a Mormon. Hannity has a book describing liberals as "evil." Chuck Norris is probably the best one out of the bunch.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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Since divorce is a sign of morality and all of that.