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RE: does the bible say this? - 7/13/2010 11:15:14 AM
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Clement19
Posts: 121
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
And I am not living in a vacuum. So as I change, those I am around are affected by the changed me.
Yes, this I agree with. People got affected by Jesus. We testify to His redeeming and transforming work in us. The world around is affected.
We recognize this reality, that we don't live in a vacuum, but are connected on many levels to many others. But as far as a kind of "mandate of change", no; I am in agreement.
John wrote "Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." Rev 22:11
My agenda is to find the light. When I do, the impact on those connected to me can be considerable. But "changing the world" I think might be a bit of a stretch for me. 
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RE: does the bible say this? - 7/13/2010 11:29:34 AM
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mysteryofgospel
Posts: 279
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ushalk,
Jesus prayed in John 17:9, and the entire chapter discusses the differences between the world and of those belonging to Christ.
"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those You have given Me, for they are Yours."
Does this add anything to your understanding of it?
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RE: does the bible say this? - 7/13/2010 11:39:43 AM
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Elena1030
Posts: 3169
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From: Music City, USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mysteryofgospel
ushalk,
Jesus prayed in John 17:9, and the entire chapter discusses the differences between the world and of those belonging to Christ.
"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those You have given Me, for they are Yours."
Does this add anything to your understanding of it?
But there's a difference in the two usages of the same term (world), though.
When someone the phrase change the world, he/she likely means "all the people and how they behave." There may not be a distinction between Christians and non-Christians in this person's mind. He/she is just talking about all the people on planet Earth.
When we believers use the phrase the world, meaning in opposition to the Kingdom, we're referring to the fallenness of human beings, the way that fallen human beings organize themselves and treat one another, and the secular worldview. We're not merely referring to all inhabitants of the planet. (Nor are we talking about the planet itself.)
So... we know that "the world," as in the world-system that is opposite that of the kingdom of God, is never going to "change." The system one is in is either Christ's or the world's.
If that's what you meant, mysteryofgospel, I totally agree with you.
I just don't think that secular folks who like to use the phrase change the world a lot will "get" that subtlety.
_____________________________
"I like to stride, not mince." -- Maggie
Prayer thread for singles who desire to marry someday
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RE: does the bible say this? - 7/13/2010 4:27:56 PM
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ushalk
Posts: 272
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DeliveredDarling
Gralan makes a good point, change comes on an individual scale through Jesus Christ. That change can and does affect "our world" meaning on a small scope rather than in a big picture kind of way. We see changes in others that affect our communities, that change can even effectbigger more widespread change through our cities.
This change can be good or bad. Jesus is the only everlasting change! Even that change changes as we grow and mature in Him.
Could this idea of change really be meant as influence?
well the point of individual change was already made. the point that i am trying to make is we as christians often take it uponn ourselves to change the world as a whole. that is not going ot happen. nor is that our calling. our calling is to share christ and his greatness with the whole world and realise that most of the world is not going ot accept it. we also need to realise that if we are speaking and living the truth the world is not going ot accept us. or the majority of it anyways. not to mention that the many that will accept us, the majority of those will not accept us for the faith but for what we can and will do for them.
in america we find these things hard to see because much of the nation is christian or it is the in thing ot do so they do it to go along with the crowd. jesus makes the point very clear that the world will become as it was in the days of noah. no one really caring about living holy and unto god. every thought of mankind will be selfish and only devise evil in their hearts and only chase after the things of this world. we see this a lot in the world today even in many of the churches.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
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RE: does the bible say this? - 7/13/2010 4:32:52 PM
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ushalk
Posts: 272
Joined: 4/15/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mysteryofgospel
ushalk,
Jesus prayed in John 17:9, and the entire chapter discusses the differences between the world and of those belonging to Christ.
"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those You have given Me, for they are Yours."
Does this add anything to your understanding of it?
thank you for this post. i agree with this. however what i am talking about is that much of the world is not going ot accept christ. i think we have all at one point or another thought we were to change the world rather than simply sharing christ with it.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
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RE: does the bible say this? - 7/13/2010 5:44:33 PM
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makarizo
Posts: 2588
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
we often think that our job as a christian to change the world. however i have not seen that anywhere in the word of god. what do you all think about this?
it is called "the great commission" MT 28:19. ... God will do all the changing, but our job sets it all up.
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RE: does the bible say this? - 7/15/2010 10:08:56 AM
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Clement19
Posts: 121
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DeliveredDarling
Gralan makes a good point, change comes on an individual scale through Jesus Christ. That change can and does affect "our world" meaning on a small scope rather than in a big picture kind of way. We see changes in others that affect our communities, that change can even effectbigger more widespread change through our cities.
This change can be good or bad. Jesus is the only everlasting change! Even that change changes as we grow and mature in Him.
Could this idea of change really be meant as influence?
Yes, our change is on an individual scale. We change in our hearts, from opposed to God and rufusing Him, to repentance and submission. Now we try to become more like Him. We believe that when He appears, we will be like Him.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
well the point of individual change was already made. the point that i am trying to make is we as christians often take it uponn ourselves to change the world as a whole. that is not going ot happen. nor is that our calling. our calling is to share christ and his greatness with the whole world and realise that most of the world is not going ot accept it. we also need to realise that if we are speaking and living the truth the world is not going ot accept us.
As someone mentioned, this sharing of Christ with the world is often called "The Great Commission".
The consensus here seems to be that "we" (believers) are not going to "change the world", which is by definition under Satan and thus opposed to God and His Christ.
But what I do see, clearly, as mandated by scripture, is what is often referred to by the "Great Commandment". We are to love one another. Specifically, we are to love our neighbor.
Now, our neighbor may seem unlovely to us. Our neighbor may seem unlovable. Our neighbor may seem quite unloving. But God commands us to love our neighbor, even as much as we have love for our very selves. God loves our neighbor; God loved the whole world so much that He sent His Son. This love reached us when we began to apprehend and appreciate Jesus Christ.
So this love which reached me through Christ's Spirit now speaks within, echoing the Holy Word, "Remember my child, true love is that you can love even when this love is not reciprocated." When we were yet sinners, Christ died for us, and now he surrounds us with sinners even as His saving love abides in us.
So to me, the proper focus is not on the scale of "the world", but rather on the sinner next to me who is caught up in the system of the world. And the focus is not on changing the world nor even the sinner next to me (my neighbor), but rather to appreciate the marvelous fact that God loves them, just as they are, and is willing to meet them, right where they are, with His saving love. When we manifest this love to them, and act as "beacons" pointing them to God's love, a door can be opened for them, and they may get transferred out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of the Son of God's love.
I don't mind the big picture stuff. But I am so small that my view of the big picture is going to be by nature somewhat distorted. Even the immutable Word is viewed through the lens of my soul. But I do have a neighbor next to me, who is on the same scale as I, who has a heart just as I, and who is likely as flummoxed by the constraints of his journey as I was by mine.
So I do attempt to appreciate the 'big picture', but the scale in which I can effectively act is in my heart, and in my expression to my fellow.
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RE: does the bible say this? - 7/18/2010 2:27:03 AM
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ColoradoLady38
Posts: 374
Joined: 8/11/2008
From: Somewhere near Pikes Peak
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I agree, we can't change the world, but we sure can pray for it. But what we can do is change what is in our particular corner of the world. I believe that change starts in the home, it's in our attitude towards other. Even when we would just really like to smack someone good, we don't. Instead we pray in earnest for that person. We show God's love and patience (gasp) to those around us. They in turn just might have a change of heart as well, and it carries over into their families and friends. This is an idealistic view point, I know. I guess you can say that we can't change the world, but we sure can change people's minds. Know what I mean Vern?
_____________________________
God loves me even though....
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